House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

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Volume 231      

Wednesday 4 March 1998

The House met at a half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alderdice, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alport, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Avebury, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Balfour of Inchrye, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Bellwin, L.
Beloff, L.
Berkeley, L.
Berners, B.
Bethell, L.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackburn, Bp.
Blake, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Blyth, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Brigstocke, B.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Broughshane, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Caldecote, V.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, Bp.
Carlisle of Bucklow, L.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrick, E.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chelmsford, V.
Chorley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Coleridge, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cowdrey of Tonbridge, L.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Cranbrook, E.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Croham, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Deedes, L.
Denham, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Derwent, L.
Desai, L.
Devonport, V.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donegall, M.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Drogheda, E.
Dundee, E.
Durham, Bp.
Eatwell, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Emerton, B.
Erne, E.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Flowers, L.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gainsborough, E.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glanusk, L.
Glenamara, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gormanston, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Gowrie, E.
Grantchester, L.
Gray, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenhill of Harrow, L.
Greenway, L.
Grey, E.
Habgood, L.
Hacking, L.
Haig, E.
Halsbury, E.
Hampton, L.
Hankey, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardwicke, E.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.

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Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Hayter, L.
Healey, L.
Henderson of Brompton, L.
Henley, L.
Hereford, Bp.
Higgins, L.
Hill-Norton, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Home, E.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howe, E.
Howell, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inchyra, L.
Inglewood, L.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jauncey of Tullichettle, L.
Jeger, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Keyes, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kilmarnock, L.
Kimball, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Knollys, V.
Lane, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layton, L.
Leathers, V.
Leicester, Bp.
Leigh, L.
Lichfield, Bp.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Liverpool, E.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lowry, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Lyell, L.
Macclesfield, E.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
McFarlane of Llandaff, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackintosh of Halifax, V.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mills, V.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Moyne, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Napier of Magdâla, L.
Naseby, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norfolk, D.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Northfield, L.
Norton, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Ellesmere, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rankeillour, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reading, M.
Redesdale, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Robertson of Oakridge, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowallan, L.
Russell, E.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Warsaw, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandwich, E.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selborne, E.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Sempill, L.
Shannon, E.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soper, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Spens, L.
Stafford, L.
Stair, E.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strathclyde, L.
Strathcona and Mount Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Temple of Stowe, E.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.

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Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thurso, V.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Tweeddale, M.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vesty, L.
Waddington, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walpole, L.
Warnock, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Westbury, L.
Whaddon, L.
Whitty, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Wise, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Lichfield.

Judicial Business

1.Total Gas Marketing Limited (Respondents) v. Arco British Limited and others (Appellants)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee.
2.Islam (A.P.) (Appellant) v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent)—The petition of the appellant praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 27th April next (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.


3.Instrument withdrawn—The following instrument, laid before the House on 3rd March, was withdrawn:

Draft Social Security Amendment (New Deal) Regulations 1998.

4.Command Paper—The following paper was presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:

Social Security—Reports by the Government Actuary and the Secretary of State for Social Security on the Draft Social Security (Reduced Rates of Class 1 Contributions, and Rebates) (Money Purchase Contracted-out Schemes) Order 1998 and the Draft Social Security (Minimum Contributions to Appropriate Personal Pension Schemes) Order 1998.


5.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Criminal Legal Aid (Scotland) (Prescribed Proceedings) Amendment Regulations 1998;
2.Draft Civil Legal Aid (Financial Conditions) (Scotland) Regulations 1998;
3.Draft Advice and Assistance (Financial Conditions) (Scotland) Regulations 1998;
4.Draft Advice and Assistance (Assistance by Way of Representation) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1998;
5.Draft Social Security (Minimum Contributions to Appropriate Personal Pension Schemes) Order 1998;
6.Draft Social Security (Reduced Rates of Class 1 Contributions, and Rebates) (Money Purchase Contracted-out Schemes) Order 1998.
6.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Gaming Act (Variation of Fees) Order 1998, laid under the Gaming Act 1968;
2.Lotteries (Gaming Board Fees) Order 1998, laid under the Lotteries and Amusements Act 1976;
3.Gaming (Bingo) Act (Fees) (Amendment) Order 1998, laid under the Gaming (Bingo) Act 1985;
4. (i)Shropshire County Council (District of the Wrekin) (Staff Transfer) Order 1998—(448)
(ii)Cambridgeshire County Council (City of Peterborough) (Staff Transfer) Order 1998—(443)
(iii)Nottinghamshire County Council (City of Nottingham) (Staff Transfer) Order 1998—(447)
(iv)Kent County Council (Borough of Gillingham and City of Rochester upon Medway) (Staff Transfer) Order 1998—(449)
(v)Essex County Council (Boroughs of Southend-on-Sea and Thurrock) (Staff Transfer) Order 1998—(442)
(vi)Berkshire County Council (Staff Transfer) Order 1998—(450)
(vii)Hereford and Worcester (Staff Transfer) Order 1998—(444)

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(viii)Cheshire County Council (Boroughs of Halton and Warrington) (Staff Transfer) Order 1998—(446)
(ix)Devon County Council (City of Plymouth and Borough of Torbay) (Staff Transfer) Order 1998—(451)
(x)Lancashire County Council (Boroughs of Blackburn with Darwen and Blackpool) (Staff Transfer) Order 1998—(445)
 laid under the Local Government Act 1992;
5.Non-Domestic Rates (Levying) (Scotland) Regulations 1998, laid under the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994;
6. (i)Draft Kent and Essex Sea Fisheries District (Variation) Order 1998—(—)
(ii)Draft Devon Sea Fisheries District (Variation) Order 1998—(—)
(iii)Draft Sussex Sea Fisheries District (Constitution of Committee and Expenses) (Variation) Order 1998—(—)
 laid under the Sea Fisheries Regulation Act 1966;
7.Surface Waters (Dangerous Substances) (Classification) Regulations 1998, laid under the Water Resources Act 1991.
7.Business of the House—It was moved by the Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale, on behalf of the Lord Privy Seal (Lord Richard), that the debate on the motion in the name of the Lord Astor of Hever set down for today shall be limited to 5 hours; the motion was agreed to.
8.Charities (5-hour debate)—It was moved by the Lord Astor of Hever that there be laid before the House papers relating to the importance of the work of charities; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
9.Bank of England Bill—The bill was reported from a Grand Committee with amendments; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 84)
10.Millennium celebrations—The Lord Tanlaw asked Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the claim made by the National Physical Laboratory, the British Horological Federation and the National Mapping Agency of Great Britain that the third millennium is to be celebrated at Greenwich on the wrong meridian with the wrong time-scale and in the wrong year of the second millennium; the question was answered by the Lord Haskel.

The House was adjourned at fourteen minutes past nine o’clock
till tomorrow, three o’clock.



The Committee met at half-past three o’clock.

The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Tordoff) was in the Chair.

Amendments were agreed to; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; it was ordered that the bill be reported with amendments.