House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

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Wednesday 17 December 1997

The House met at a half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Abercorn, D.
Aberdare, L.
Abinger, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annaly, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Berners, B.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Boyd-Carpenter, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bramall, L.
Brentford, V.
Brightman, L.
Broadbridge, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookes, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burlison, L.

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Burnham, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Cadman, L.
Caldecote, V.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carter, L.
Carver, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chalfont, L.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Coleridge, L.
Colwyn, L.
Congleton, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Cranbrook, E.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Croham, L.
Cross, V.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Dundee, E.
Dundonald, E.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Effingham, E.
Ellenborough, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ferrers, E.
Fisher, L.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gainford, L.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gillmore of Thamesfield, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Gladwyn, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gormanston, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Grimston of Westbury, L.
Halsbury, E.
Hamwee, B.
Hanworth, V.
Hardinge of Penshurst, L.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harlech, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harrowby, E.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Healey, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henderson of Brompton, L.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hindlip, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howe, E.
Howell, L.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Inglewood, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kenilworth, L.
Kennet, L.
Kilmarnock, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kintore, E.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layton, L.
Leathers, V.
Leicester, Bp.
Leigh, L.
Lestor of Eccles, B.
Levy, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lockwood, B.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lowry, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Macpherson of Drumochter, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Mersey, V.
Meston, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.

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Monro of Langholm, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mountevans, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Naseby, L.
Nathan, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Nolan, L.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Ogmore, L.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Orme, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Parry, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Perry of Walton, L.
Perth, E.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plummer of St. Marylebone, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rochester, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rowallan, L.
Runcie, L.
Russell, E.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Sainsbury, L.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Sandwich, E.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Sempill, L.
Serota, B.
Shannon, E.
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Spens, L.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Teviot, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thurlow, L.
Tope, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trumpington, B.
Turner of Camden, B.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Coslany, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walpole, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Westbury, L.
Whaddon, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Windlesham, L.
Wise, L.
Young, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Leicester.


1.Command Papers—The following papers were presented to the House by command of Her Majesty and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Air Services—
(i)Additional Protocol No. 1 to amend the Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules Relating to International Carriage by Air;(2823)
(ii)Additional Protocol No. 2 to amend the Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules Relating to International Carriage by Air;(3824)
(iii)Protocol relating to an Amendment to the Convention on Civil Aviation.(3825)
2.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages (Fees) Order 1997, laid under the Public Expenditure and Receipts Act 1968;
2. (i)Arable Area Payments (Amendment) Regulations—(2969)
(ii)Merchant Shipping and Fishing Vessels (Health and Safety at Work) Regulations 1997—(2962)

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 laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
3.Teachers’ Pensions Regulations 1997, laid under the Superannuation Act 1972.
3.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Statements by the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry on the:
(i)Anglo American Insurance Company Limited—
(ii)Pine Top Insurance Company Limited—
(iii)Sovereign Marine and General Insurance Company Limited—
(iv)North Atlantic Insurance Company Limited—
(v)UIC Insurance Company Limited—
 laid under the Policyholders Protection Act 1975;
2.Report for 1996–97 of the Chief Registrar of the Registry of Friendly Societies, laid under the Friendly Societies Act 1974;
3. (i)Accounts for 1996–97 of the Consolidated Fund and National Loans Fund, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General—
(ii)Supplementary Statements for 1996–97 relating to the Accounts of the Consolidated Fund and National Loans Fund—
 laid under the National Loans Act 1968.

Select Committee Report

4.Delegated Powers and Deregulation—The following report from the Select Committee was made and ordered to be printed:

9th Report, on the following bills:

Teaching and Higher Education Bill [HL]
Local Government (Experimental Arrangements) Bill [HL]
Greater London Authority (Referendum) Bill
Crime and Disorder Bill [HL]
National Lottery Bill [HL];

and requesting evidence on the following proposal for a draft deregulation order: Deregulation (Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles) Order 1998. (HL Paper 54)

Public Business

5.Royal Assent—The Lord Chancellor notified the Queen’s Assent to the following Acts:
Consolidated Fund (No. 2) Actc. 67
Special Immigration Appeals Commission Actc. 68
Supreme Court (Offices) Actc. 69
Scottish Agricultural College Order Confirmation Actc. iv
6.Welfare of Pigs (No. 2) Bill [HL]—A bill to make provision with respect to the health and welfare of pigs was presented by the Lord Beaumont of Whitley, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 58)
7.Ceremony of Introduction—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the following Lords be named of the Committee:
L. Berkeley
L. Denham
L. Elis-Thomas
B. Hamwee
B. Lockwood
L. Marsh (Chairman)
B. Wilcox;

That the Committee have power to adjourn from place to place;

That the Committee have leave to report from time to time;

That the minutes of evidence taken before the Committee from time to time shall, if the Committee think fit, be printed and delivered out; and

That the Committee do meet on Tuesday 13th January at a quarter-past four o’clock;

the motion was agreed to.

8.House of Lords’ Offices—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that the 3rd Report from the Select Committee (HL Paper 49) be agreed to; after debate, the motion was agreed to.
9.Rented housing (Short debate)—It was moved by the Lord Dean of Beswick that there be laid before the House papers relating to the case for more rented housing in both the public and private sectors; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
10.Nuclear weapons (Short debate)—It was moved by the Lord Jenkins of Putney that there be laid before the House papers relating to the speech of the Pope’s Permanent Representative, Archbishop Renato Martina, at the United Nations on 15th October making the case for

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  doing away with nuclear weapons; after debate, the motion was (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
11.Local Government (Experimental Arrangements) Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Lord Hunt of Tanworth that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

The House was adjourned at twenty-three minutes past nine o’clock
till tomorrow, eleven o’clock.