House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

Previous Next

Page 390


Volume 231      

Tuesday 9 December 1997

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Aberdare, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alderdice, L.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Alexander of Weedon, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alport, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St. Johns, B.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Banbury of Southam, L.
Barber of Tewkesbury, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Beloff, L.
Belstead, L.
Berkeley, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Boyd-Carpenter, L.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridge of Harwich, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Broadbridge, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Butterworth, L.
Byford, B.
Byron, L.
Cadman, L.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Calverley, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnarvon, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Carrick, E.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Carver, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chalfont, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chelmsford, V.
Chesham, L.
Chorley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coggan, L.
Coleraine, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Constantine of Stanmore, L.
Cooke of Thorndon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Cranworth, L.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Crook, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Devonport, V.
Dholakia, L.
Diamond, L.
Dilhorne, V.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Dubs, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Effingham, E.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Ely, Bp.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Exeter, Bp.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fisher of Rednal, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Gainford, L.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geraint, L.
Gerard, L.
Gibson-Watt, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gillmore of Thamesfield, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gormanston, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Gowrie, E.
Graham of Edmonton, L.

Page 391


Volume 231

Back to top

Granard, E.
Grantchester, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Hacking, L.
Haddington, E.
Haig, E.
Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, L.
Hampton, L.
Hanworth, V.
Hardie, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Hardwicke, E.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harlech, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harris of High Cross, L.
Haskel, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Healey, L.
Hemphill, L.
Henderson of Brompton, L.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hindlip, L.
Hoffmann, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howe, E.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hutchinson of Lullington, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inchcape, E.
Inchyra, L.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jauncey of Tullichettle, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Jopling, L.
Judd, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kilmarnock, L.
Kilpatrick of Kincraig, L.
King of Wartnaby, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Kintore, E.
Kirkhill, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Knollys, V.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layton, L.
Leathers, V.
Leigh, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Levene of Port Soken, L.
Levy, L.
Lewin, L.
Lincoln, Bp.
Lindsay, E.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lloyd-George of Dwyfor, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Long, V.
Longford, E.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Macfarlane of Bearsden, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLehose of Beoch, L.
Macleod of Borve, B.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monckton of Brenchley, V.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Monteagle of Brandon, L.
Moran, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Naseby, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norfolk, D.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton, L.
Ogmore, L.
Oliver of Aylmerton, L.
Onslow, E.
Onslow of Woking, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Orme, L.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parry, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Pike, B.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prentice, L.
Prior, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Pym, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rawlinson of Ewell, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Ritchie of Dundee, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.

Page 392


Volume 231

Back to top

Robson of Kiddington, B.
Rochester, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rowallan, L.
Runcie, L.
Russell, E.
Ryder of Warsaw, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Saint Albans, D.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sandford, L.
Sandwich, E.
Savile, L.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selborne, E.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Sempill, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Simpson of Dunkeld, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soper, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathcona and Mount Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Tebbit, L.
Temple of Stowe, E.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Teynham, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thurlow, L.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakefield, Bp.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Westbury, L.
Whaddon, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitelaw, V.
Whitty, L.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Windlesham, L.
Winston, L.
Wise, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.
Young of Old Scone, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Lincoln.

1.Oath—Frederick Donald Lord Coggan took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

Judicial Business

2.Ingram and another (Appellants) v. Commissioners of Inland Revenue (Respondents)—The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 20th January next (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.
3.Powell (A.P.) and another (A.P.) (Petitioners) v. Boladz and others (Respondents)—The second petitioner’s legal aid certificate was lodged.
4.Appeal Committee—The 38th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made—

McConnell (Petitioner) v. Police Authority for Northern Ireland (Respondents) (Northern Ireland)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Rye and others (Trustees of the Dennis Rye Pension Fund) (Respondents) v. Sheffield City Council (Petitioners) and one other appeal—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Henderson (Petitioner) v. Wakefield Shirt Company Limited (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d) and if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Regina v. Secretary of State for the Home Department and another (Respondents) ex parte Franc”ois (A.P.) (Petitioner)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 23rd December next.

In re McMahon (A.P.) (Respondent) (application for a writ of Habeas Corpus)—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 23rd December next.

Page 393


Volume 231

Back to top

Director of Public Prosecutions (Respondent) v. Jones and another (Petitioners)—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 23rd December next.

Regina v. Lord Chancellor (Respondent) ex parte Riniker (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be refused.


5.Command Papers—The following papers, having been presented to the House by command of Her Majesty on the dates shown, were ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Aid and Trade—Department for International Development Minute on Aid and Trade Provision Soft Loan—Tax Indemnity to Banque Paribas; (8th December)
(i)“The new NHS”: Government proposals; (9th December)(3807)
(ii)“Designed to Care: Renewing the National Health Service in Scotland”: Government proposals; (9th December)(3811)
3.Museums and Galleries—Report and Financial Statements for 1996–97 of the Greater Manchester Museum of Science and Industry Trust. (9th December)
6.Statutory Instruments (Standing Order 68)—The following negative instruments, having been laid before the House on 8th December, were ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982 (Provisional and Protective Measures) (Scotland) Order 1997, laid under the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgments Act 1982;
2.Transfer of Functions (Insurance) Order 1997, laid under the Ministers of the Crown Act 1975;
3.Local Government Changes for England (Property Transfer) (Humberside) Order 1997, laid under the Local Government Act 1992;
4.Local Authorities (Contracts) Regulations 1997, laid under the Local Government (Contracts) Act 1997;
5.Firemen’s Pension Scheme (Amendment No. 2) Order 1997, laid under the Fire Services Act 1947;
6.Police Pensions (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 1997, laid under the Police Pensions Act 1976;
7.Medicines (Pharmacies) (Applications for Registration and Fees) Amendment Regulations 1997, laid under the Medicines Act 1968;
8.Medicines (Restrictions on the Administration of Veterinary Medicinal Products) Amendment Regulations 1997, laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
9. (i)Rhondda Health Care National Health Service Trust (Transfer of Trust Property) Order 1997—(2651)
(ii)East Glamorgan National Health Service Trust (Transfer of Trust Property) Order 1997—(2652)
 laid under the National Health Service Act 1977.
7.Deregulation—The following proposal was laid before the House under section 3(3) of the Deregulation and Contracting Out Act 1994 and referred to the Delegated Powers and Deregulation Committee:

Proposal for the Draft Deregulation (Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles) Order 1998.

8.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Sole, Plaice, etc. (Specified Sea Areas) (Prohibition of Fishing) (No. 2) Order 1997, laid under the Sea Fish Conservation Act 1967;
2.Plant Health (Great Britain) (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 1997, laid under the Plant Health Act 1967;
3. (i)Charges for Inspections and Controls Regulations 1997—(2893)
(ii)Cosmetic Products (Safety) (Amendment) Regulations 1997—(2914)
 laid under the European Communities Act 1972;
4.Medicines (Veterinary Drugs) (Pharmacy and Merchants’ List) (Amendment) Order 1997, laid under the Medicines Act 1968;
5.Insurance Companies (Accounts and Statements) (Amendment) Regulations 1997, laid under the Insurance Companies Act 1982;
6.Local Government Property Commission (Scotland) (Winding Up) Order 1997, laid under the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994;
7.Local Authorities (Contracts) (Scotland) Regulations 1997, laid under the Local Government (Contracts) Act 1997;

Page 394


Volume 231

Back to top

8. (i)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Sussex Cable & Telecoms Limited) Order 1997—(2909)
(ii)Public Telecommunication System Designation (Shropshire Cable & Telecoms Limited) Order 1997—(2910)
 laid under the Telecommunications Act 1984.
9.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Accounts for 1996–97 of the Victoria and Albert Museum, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Museums and Galleries Act 1992;
2.Report for 1996–97 of the Lord Chancellor’s Advisory Committee on Legal Education and Conduct, laid under the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990;
3.Accounts of the Staff Commission for Wales for—
(ii)1st April 1997 to 4th July 1997—
 laid under the Local Government (Wales) Act 1994;
4.Accounts for 1996–97 of the Marine and Aviation Insurance (War Risks) Fund, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Marine and Aviation (War Risks) Act 1952;
5.Report for 1st August 1996 to 31st July 1997 of the Pensions Compensation Board, laid under the Pensions Act 1995;
6.Report for 1996–97 of the Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland, laid under the Electoral Law Act (Northern Ireland) 1962;
7.Report for 1996–97 of the Medical Research Council, laid under the Science and Technology Act 1965;
8.Civil Service Compensation Scheme (Amendment) Scheme 1997 (No. 2), laid under the Superannuation Act 1972;
9.Order amending the Queen’s Regulations for the Royal Air Force, laid under the Air Force Constitution Act 1917;
10.Licences to run telecommunication systems granted by the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to—
(i)Shropshire Cable & Telecoms Limited—
(ii)Sussex Cable & Telecoms Limited—
 laid under the Telecommunications Act 1984.

Select Committee Reports

10.Statutory Instruments—The 16th Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments; it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 48)
11.House of Lords’ Offices—The 3rd Report from the Select Committee was made (see appendix); it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 49)

Public Business

12.Supreme Court (Offices) Bill—The order of commitment was discharged.
13.Public Processions etc. (Northern Ireland) Bill [HL]—The bill was read a third time; amendments were agreed to; an amendment was moved and (by leave of the House) withdrawn; a privilege amendment was agreed to; then the bill was passed and sent to the Commons.
14.Civil justice and legal aid—It was moved by the Lord Chancellor that this House take note of Her Majesty’s Government’s proposals for the reform of civil justice and legal aid; after debate, the motion was agreed to.
15.Drugs—The Lord Layton asked Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the appointment of a “Drugs Czar” from the police force, what direction their policy will take and how the funding will be allocated; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Falconer of Thoroton.

The House was adjourned at nineteen minutes before midnight
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.

Page 395


Volume 231

Back to top



Tuesday, 9 December 1997

By the Select Committee appointed to consider the House of Lords’ Offices.

Ordered to Report—


Lord Burnham was appointed to the Refreshment Sub-Committee in the place of Lord Chesham.


The Committee agreed, for a trial period, that the Hansard reporters should be moved to the Peers’ Married Daughters’ Box to allow extra space to be created for disabled Peers. This arrangement will be reviewed before the 1998 summer recess.


The Committee draws the attention of the House to the following guidelines for the use of House of Lords’ stationery which were agreed in 1993:

    “House of Lords’ stationery may be used for all correspondence relating to the work of the House, including the work of all-party committees;

    House of Lords’ stationery may be used for personal correspondence in modest quantities, but should not be used for circulars, correspondence of organisations (except those of an essentially parliamentary nature) or business letters.”

The Committee also reminds Lords that red crested House of Lords’ stationery should be used only for correspondence and not for speeches or rough notes, for which a range of other paper of lesser quality is available.


The Committee approved as part of the fire compartmentation programme a proposal to install near the top of the Peers’ Staircase a door similar to those at the beginning of the West Front corridor and next to the Clerk of the Parliament’s Office.


The Committee agreed that from 1st January all unstamped mail left with the Attendants for posting, other than to destinations within the Parliamentary Estate or served by the Interdepartmental Despatch Service (IDS), should not be franked. In cases where the sender can be identified the letter will be returned to them; if the sender cannot be identified the letter will be placed in an open box in a prominent position in the Attendants’ Mail Room in the Peers’ Lobby.