House of Lords Journal 231 (Session 1997-98)

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Tuesday 2 December 1997

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Irvine of Lairg, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Abercorn, D.
Aberdare, L.
Abinger, L.
Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Addison, V.
Ailesbury, M.
Ailsa, M.
Alderdice, L.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Archer of Weston-Super-Mare, L.
Arran, E.
Ashbourne, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Baldwin of Bewdley, E.
Balfour of Inchrye, L.
Barber of Tewkesbury, L.
Barnett, L.

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Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beaverbrook, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Bellwin, L.
Beloff, L.
Belstead, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bethell, L.
Biddulph, L.
Biffen, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blake, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blease, L.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brain, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Bristol, Bp.
Broadbridge, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookes, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Broughshane, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Buckinghamshire, E.
Burlison, L.
Burnham, L.
Burton, L.
Butterworth, L.
Cadman, L.
Caithness, E.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Canterbury, Abp.
Carlisle, E.
Carlisle, Bp.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carnock, L.
Carter, L.
Chalfont, L.
Charteris of Amisfield, L.
Chesham, L.
Chorley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Cockfield, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
Coleraine, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Cranborne, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Croham, L.
Cross, V.
Cuckney, L.
Cullen of Ashbourne, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davidson, V.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Freyne, L.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denbigh, E.
Denham, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Downshire, M.
Dundonald, E.
Dunrossil, V.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elibank, L.
Elis-Thomas, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Ely, Bp.
Emerton, B.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Exmouth, V.
Ezra, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ferrers, E.
Feversham, L.
Fisher of Rednal, B.
Fitt, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Freyberg, L.
Gage, V.
Gainford, L.
Gallacher, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Geraint, L.
Gerard, L.
Gibson-Watt, L.
Gillmore of Thamesfield, L.
Gisborough, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenamara, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Goodhart, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gormanston, V.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Gowrie, E.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Granard, E.
Grantley, L.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenhill of Harrow, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grey, E.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grimston of Westbury, L.
Hacking, L.
Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, L.
Hampton, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hardwicke, E.
Hardy of Wath, L.
Harlech, L.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Haskel, L.
Haslam, L.
Hattersley, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Healey, L.
Henderson of Brompton, L.
Henley, L.
Hesketh, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Holderness, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Hothfield, L.
Howe, E.
Howell, L.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Tanworth, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hussey of North Bradley, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Inchcape, E.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
Ironside, L.
Islwyn, L.
Iveagh, E.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.

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Jopling, L.
Kenilworth, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kennet, L.
Kilbracken, L.
Kilmarnock, L.
Kilpatrick of Kincraig, L.
Kimball, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kinnoull, E.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawrence, L.
Leathers, V.
Leicester, Bp.
Leigh, L.
Lestor of Eccles, B.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Liverpool, E.
Lloyd-George of Dwyfor, E.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Longford, E.
Lowry, L.
Lucas, L.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McCarthy, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Mackintosh of Halifax, V.
MacLehose of Beoch, L.
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Meston, L.
Middleton, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Milverton, L.
Minto, E.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Moore of Wolvercote, L.
Moran, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Moynihan, L.
Munster, E.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Nelson, E.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Nickson, L.
Nicol, B.
Noel-Buxton, L.
Norfolk, D.
Norrie, L.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northfield, L.
O’Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Orme, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Oxfuird, V.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parry, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pender, L.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Ellesmere, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Poole, L.
Portland, E.
Pym, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rathcavan, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reading, M.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Renwick, L.
Richard, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Robertson of Oakridge, L.
Robson of Kiddington, B.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rowallan, L.
Russell, E.
Russell of Liverpool, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury, L.
St. Davids, V.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St. John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Seccombe, B.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Sempill, L.
Shannon, E.
Sharples, B.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Shuttleworth, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Smith, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Soper, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Stafford, L.
Stallard, L.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stockton, E.
Stodart of Leaston, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Strathalmond, L.
Strathcarron, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sudeley, L.
Suffolk and Berkshire, E.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Teviot, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomson of Monifieth, L.
Thurso, V.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Tweeddale, M.
Ullswater, V.
Varley, L.
Vinson, L.
Vivian, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.

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Walker of Doncaster, L.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Westbury, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Willoughby de Brooke, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Winston, L.
Wise, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young, B.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Bristol.

1.Oath—Simon Gordon Jared Lord Russell of Liverpool took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

Judicial Business

2.Regina v. Bingham (Appellant) (On Appeal from the Court of Appeal in Northern Ireland)—The appeal of Graham Carlo Bingham was presented and ordered to be prosecuted subject to the procedures applicable thereto.
3.Regina v. Secretary of State for the Environment (Original Appellant and Cross-Respondent) ex parte Council of the London Borough of Camden (Original Respondent and Cross-Appellant)—The appeal was set down for hearing and referred to an Appellate Committee.
4.Appeal Committee—The 36th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Order was made—

Regina v. Basingstoke County Court (Respondents) ex parte De Souza (Petitioner)—That the petition be dismissed as inadmissible.


5.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Occupational Pensions (Revaluation) Order 1997, laid under the Pension Schemes Act 1993;
2.Companies (1986 Order) (Directors’ Report) (Statement of Payment Practice) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 1997, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 1974;
3. (i)Crown Court (Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996) (Confidentiality) Rules (Northern Ireland) 1997—(—)
(ii)Crown Court (Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996) (Disclosure) Rules (Northern Ireland) 1997—(—)
 laid under the Judicature (Northern Ireland) Act 1978.

Select Committee Report

6.Statutory Instruments—The 15th Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instruments:

Draft Non-Domestic Rating (Chargeable Amounts) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 1997;

Draft Criminal Legal Aid (Scotland) (Prescribed Proceedings) Regulations 1997;

Draft Advice and Assistance (Assistance by Way of Representation) (Scotland) Regulations 1997;

Draft Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997 Compensation Scheme;

Public Bodies (Admission to Meetings) (National Health Service Trusts) Order 1997;

it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 46)

Public Business

7.Crime and Disorder Bill [HL]—A bill to make provision for preventing crime and disorder; to create certain racially-aggravated offences, and to abolish the rebuttable presumption that a child is doli incapax; to make changes to the criminal justice system; to make further provision for dealing with offenders; to make further provision with respect to remands and committals for trial and the release and recall of prisoners; to amend Chapter I of Part II of the Crime (Sentences) Act 1997 and to repeal Chapter I of Part III of the Crime and Punishment (Scotland) Act 1997; to make amendments designed to facilitate, or otherwise desirable in connection with, the consolidation of certain enactments; and for connected purposes was presented by the Lord Williams of Mostyn, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 52)
8.Committee of Selection—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that the Lord Burnham be appointed a member of the Committee in the place of the Lord Chesham; the motion was agreed to.

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9.Procedure of the House—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees, on behalf of the Committee of Selection, that the Lord Burnham be appointed a member of the Select Committee in the place of the Lord Chesham; the motion was agreed to.
10.Ceremony of Introduction—It was moved by the Lord Privy Seal (Lord Richard) that it is desirable that a Select Committee be appointed to consider alterations in the ceremony of Introduction and to make recommendations; the motion was agreed to.
11.Special Immigration Appeals Commission Bill [HL]—The Commons amendments were considered and agreed to, and the privilege amendment was agreed to.
12.Education (Student Loans) Bill—It was moved by the Baroness Blackstone that the bill be now read a second time; after debate, the motion was agreed to and the bill was committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
13.EU Gas Directive (ECC Report)—It was moved by the Lord Geddes that this House take note of the Report of the European Communities Committee on the EU Gas Directive (7th Report, HL Paper 35); after debate, the motion was agreed to.
14.Iraq—The Lord Avebury asked Her Majesty’s Government what is their current policy towards Iraq; after debate, the question was answered by the Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean.

The House was adjourned at twenty-one minutes past ten o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.