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Lord Lucas: I agree that it is not in the batch that we are talking about but I thought it would be kind if I were to give the noble Lord notice of a point that was going to hit him before we reached the next group of amendments.

Lord Whitty: As always, I am deeply indebted to the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, for his kindness. I hope that with that explanation the Committee can accept these amendments.

Baroness Blatch: I wish to come back on two points. The noble Lord said that Amendment No. 203D referred to land owned by the governing body, but the amendment goes on to refer to a closing foundation, a voluntary or a foundation special school. I want to be absolutely certain that if the governing body is the

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owner, the governing body can be the owner of a voluntary or a foundation school and the moneys do not belong to the Government for the Secretary of State to direct. The point of my question, irrespective of ownership, was that the governing body is not necessarily an LEA-type governing body, as stated in the Explanatory Note.

On Amendment No. 206R, the noble Lord missed one of my questions. I am grateful for the answer on the other point that I raised that trustee property would be protected. How does the policy interrelate with the work of organisational committees and the decisions that flow from the organisational committees?

Lord Whitty: Amendment No. 206R relates to the provisions about whether it merges as a result of a decision by a school organisation committee, as in future it normally would, or if there were some other reasons for closure. I am not sure that the particular consequence of a school organisation committee decision alters the provisions of the clause. If the noble Baroness wishes to explain the circumstances further, I will come back on that.

In relation to Amendment No. 203D and so on, we are talking about where the governing body owns the premises rather than some trustee body. That relates to all types of school listed in the clause--a foundation, a voluntary or a foundation special school. Where a private trustee owns the land or the premises then it is clearly a different situation.

Baroness Blatch: I take it that if it was owned by a body other than an LEA or state provider the Secretary of State would not have a power to direct. The actual point I am getting to is that I want to be absolutely certain that he would direct only in the case of properties that belong either to an LEA, a public body or a state-controlled body. The noble Lord has not referred to Amendment No. 203G where, as I say, you can have a single project, particularly in a grant-maintained school, accepting help in kind, which is costed and which includes money raised by parents, by the community, or sometimes by the local authority, and certainly sometimes by private finance, all inside one project. If that arts centre, say, is sold off and it has been built in that way, with some initial capital from the LEA, does the whole thing become requisitioned by the LEA?

Lord Whitty: As I understand the clause--I will clarify it further in writing--we are talking of money and provision in kind from the LEA and that does not relate to money from other sources. However, I think I had better clarify that in writing to the noble Baroness. On Amendment No. 203G I beg the noble Baroness's pardon. I have forgotten her point on the amendment. Perhaps she will remind me.

Baroness Blatch: This amendment really refers to a situation with a great mixture of financial input. It refers to a single project and, where that is the subject of a disposal, who would be the arbiter, what its value was

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and where the receipts of that value should reside, and who decides what is a genuine capital receipt to the people in the area who subscribed to it.

Lord Whitty: I think I had better write to the noble Baroness. I suspect that at the end of the day the arbiter, if there is a dispute, will be the courts.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 71, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 21 [Transfers of land on appointed day]:

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 203B:


Page 185, line 26, at end insert--

("Transfer of rights to use land

8A.--(1) Where paragraph 4, 5, 6 or 7 applies to an existing school and any land held by a person or body other than the governing body of the school was, immediately before the appointed day, used for the purposes of the school, any rights or liabilities--
(a) enjoyed or incurred by the governing body in connection with the use of the land, and
(b) subsisting immediately before the appointed day,
shall on that day be transferred to, and by virtue of this Act vest in, the local education authority (in a case to which paragraph 4 or 7 applies) or the foundation body (in a case to which paragraph 5 or 6 applies).
(2) Where paragraph 4 or 7 applies to an existing school and any land held by a person or body other than any trustees who hold any land for the purposes of the school was, immediately before the appointed day, used for the purposes of the school, any rights or liabilities--
(a) enjoyed or incurred by any such trustees in connection with the use of the land, and
(b) subsisting immediately before the appointed day,
shall on that day be transferred to, and vest in, the local education authority in accordance with a transfer agreement.
(3) Nothing in this paragraph applies in relation to land to which paragraph 4, 5, 6 or 7 applies.
(4) In this paragraph--
"existing school" has the meaning given by paragraph 4, 5, 6 or 7, as the case may be;
"transfer agreement" means an agreement--
(i) made for the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) between the local education authority and the trustees mentioned in that sub-paragraph, and
(ii) providing for the rights or liabilities in question to be transferred to, and vest in, the authority on the appointed day, whether or not in consideration of the payment by the authority of such amount as may be agreed between the parties.").

The noble Lord said: I beg to move this amendment formally.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Schedule 21, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 72 [Foundation, voluntary and foundation special schools: disposal of land and discontinuance]:

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 203C:


Page 55, line 41, leave out ("such") and insert ("maintained").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Clause 72, as amended, agreed to.

8 Jun 1998 : Column 788

Schedule 22 [Foundation, voluntary and foundation special schools: Disposal of land and discontinuance]:

Lord Whitty moved Amendments Nos. 203D to 203G:


Page 186, line 25, after (" 6") insert ("or paragraph 5(4)(c) of this Schedule").
Page 187, line 3, at end insert--
("(5) Sub-paragraph (1)(e) shall not apply in the case of any expenditure incurred on or after the appointed day unless the authority--
(a) prepared a statement in writing--
(i) containing details of the amount of the expenditure, the acquisition or works funded (or to be funded) by such expenditure, and the total cost (or estimated total cost) of that acquisition or those works, and
(ii) indicating that the expenditure was being treated by them as expenditure of a capital nature; and
(b) sent a copy of the statement to the governing body either before, or no later than 12 months after, the expenditure was incurred.").
Page 187, line 30, at end insert--
("(5) Sub-paragraph (1)(e) shall not apply in the case of any expenditure incurred on or after the appointed day unless the authority--
(a) prepared a statement in writing--
(i) containing details of the amount of the expenditure, the acquisition or works funded (or to be funded) by such expenditure, and the total cost (or estimated total cost) of that acquisition or those works, and
(ii) indicating that the expenditure was being treated by them as expenditure of a capital nature; and
(b) sent a copy of the statement to the foundation body either before, or no later than 12 months after, the expenditure was incurred.").
Page 187, line 37, leave out ("enhanced in value") and insert ("acquired, or enhanced in value,").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

[Amendments Nos. 204 and 205 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List.]

Lord Whitty moved Amendment No. 205A:


Page 188, line 22, after ("authority") insert (", the trustees or the governing body of the school").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendment No. 206 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List.]

Lord Whitty moved Amendments Nos. 206C to 206AF:


Page 188, line 30, at end insert--
("(5A) Sub-paragraph (1)(b) shall not apply in the case of any expenditure unless the authority--
(a) prepared a statement in writing--
(i) containing details of the amount of the expenditure, the acquisition or works funded (or to be funded) by such expenditure, and the total cost (or estimated total cost) of that acquisition or those works, and
(ii) indicating that the expenditure was being treated by them as expenditure of a capital nature; and

8 Jun 1998 : Column 789


(b) sent a copy of the statement to the trustees either before, or no later than 12 months after, the expenditure was incurred.").
Page 188, line 48, after ("authority") insert ("either").
Page 188, line 48, at end insert ("as he determines to be just").
Page 190, line 7, leave out ("either or both") and insert ("one or more").
Page 190, line 12, at end insert ("; and
(c) in a case where the discontinuance of the school is connected with proposals under section 27 or 30 or paragraph 5 of Schedule 7 to establish, or to make a prescribed alteration to, any other school or schools, require the land or any part of the land to be transferred to the governing body of such maintained school or the temporary governing body of such new school as he may specify.").
Page 190, leave out lines 22 to 28.
Page 191, leave out lines 7 to 13.
Page 191, leave out lines 16 to 19 and insert--
("7.--(1) This paragraph applies in connection with the dissolution of the governing body of a maintained school by virtue of paragraph 4 of Schedule 10.").
Page 191, line 20, leave out ("this paragraph applies") and insert ("a governing body are so dissolved").
Page 191, line 21, leave out ("of the school").
Page 191, line 23, after ("liabilities") insert ("(including rights and liabilities in relation to staff)").
Page 191, line 24, leave out ("discontinuance date") and insert ("date of dissolution").
Page 191, line 26, after ("shall") insert ("on the date of dissolution").
Page 191, line 26, leave out (", the local education authority on the discontinuance date") and insert--
("(i) the local education authority, or
(ii) one or more of the following, namely the governing body of a maintained school and the temporary governing body of a new school, if the Secretary of State so directs before the date of dissolution").
Page 191, line 29, after ("land") insert ("or other property").
Page 191, line 29, after ("transfer") insert ("or payment").
Page 191, line 33, at beginning insert ("unless the Secretary of State otherwise directs by order made before the date of dissolution,").
Page 191, line 34, at end insert--
("(3A) Subject to sub-paragraph (3B), a governing body who are to be dissolved as mentioned in sub-paragraph (1) may transfer any land or other property which is held by them on trust for the purposes of the school to any person to hold such land or other property on trust for purposes connected with the provision of education in maintained schools.
(3B) Sub-paragraph (3A) does not apply to any land or other property so held by the governing body of a foundation, voluntary or foundation special school where any other persons also hold any property on trust for the purposes of the school; and any such land or other property shall on the date of dissolution be transferred to, and by virtue of this Act vest in, those persons.
(3C) If any doubt or dispute arises as to the persons to whom any land or other property within sub-paragraph (3B) falls to be transferred under that sub-paragraph, it shall be treated as falling to be so transferred to such persons as the Secretary of State thinks proper.").
Page 191, leave out lines 35 to 38.
Page 192, line 13, at end insert--
("8A.--(1) Where a transfer under paragraph 1(3)(a), 2(3)(a), 4(2), 5(4)(a) or (c), 6(2)(b) or 8(2)(b) of this Schedule relates to registered land, it shall be the duty of the transferor--

8 Jun 1998 : Column 790


(a) to execute any such instrument under the Land Registration Acts 1925 to 1986,
(b) to deliver any such certificate under those Acts, and
(c) to do such other things under those Acts,
as he would be required to execute, deliver or do in the case of a transfer by agreement between the transferor and the transferee.
(2) Paragraphs 6 to 8 of Schedule 10 to the Education Reform Act 1988 (construction of agreements) shall apply in relation to transfers under paragraph 7 of this Schedule as they apply in relation to transfers to which that Schedule applies.").
Page 192, line 17, at end insert ("; and
(ii) in the case of any premises held under a tenancy to which Part II of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 ("the 1954 Act") applies, the termination of that tenancy under that Part of that Act").
Page 192, line 20, leave out ("or compensation").
Page 192, line 21, after ("rent;") insert--
("(ia) any compensation for the disposal, including any compensation paid by the landlord on the quitting of any premises within paragraph (b)(ii) by the governing body, foundation body or trustees (whether or not the compensation is required to be paid by section 37 of the 1954 Act (compensation where order for new tenancy precluded on certain grounds));").
Page 192, line 23, at end insert ("or compensation").
Page 192, line 23, at end insert--
("(d) "new school" has the meaning given by section 69(3).").
Page 192, leave out lines 24 to 34.
Page 192, line 35, leave out ("sub-paragraph (2)") and insert ("paragraphs (b)(ii) and (c)(ia) of sub-paragraph (1)").
Page 192, line 51, at end insert--
("( ) In paragraph 1(1) references, in relation to the governing body of a foundation, voluntary or foundation special school, to any land being acquired in a particular way include references to the land being acquired in that way by the temporary governing body for the school.").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Schedule 22, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 73 agreed to.

Clause 74 [Rating of maintained schools]:


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