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Lord Pilkington of Oxenford: The noble Lord's reply worries me. In essence we are trying to draw out of the maintained sector the initiative and imagination that is there. As the noble Lord knows from his practice in business, initiative and imagination are drawn out by giving responsibility for decisions.

Schedule 17 is a belt and braces operation. Fundamentally, it says that we cannot really trust a governing body to appoint the right man or woman; we need the local authority to look at it. We cannot rely on

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the head to appoint the right teacher; we need to safeguard. As the noble Lord said, that does not apply anywhere else. The schools are surrounded by the diocesan authorities and the local authorities. My objection to Schedule 17 is that it does not allow the initiative which exists to come through.

I do not want to harp on about the Oratory School and I do not raise that as a political point in relation to the Prime Minister. However, I must mention the name of John Mackintosh. He is a distinguished headmaster who transformed his school on his own initiative, on his own appointments within the state sector. I want to see 3,000 John Mackintoshes and this schedule stops that happening.

The fact is that people like the noble Lord apply one rule in their business, as does everyone else in society. It is true that the flag of the independent sector, like the flag of the noble Lord's sector, was the skull and crossbones. I acknowledge that, but we followed our initiative and we failed if we did not do that. Why not allow this in the state sector? What is it about teaching that needs this elaborate, complicated control which does not apply in any other area of English life?

I shall withdraw the amendment, but the noble Lord has not proved his point and he did not live his life by the philosophy which he is putting forward.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

10 p.m.

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 175E:


Page 43, line 11, leave out ("or by virtue of section 48(2) or (4)").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendments Nos. 175C and 175D not moved.]

Clause 54, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 17 [Staffing of foundation, voluntary aided and foundation special schools]:

[Amendment No. 176 not moved.]

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendments Nos. 176A to 176F:


Page 170, line 9, at end insert ("(but paragraphs 6 to 8 so apply subject to paragraphs 28 and 29).").
Page 170, line 11, leave out ("below") and insert ("in paragraphs 5 to 8 (or, in a case where paragraph 28 or 29 applies, any of the steps falling to be taken under that paragraph)").
Page 170, line 35, at end insert--
("(6) In sub-paragraph (1) the reference to paragraphs 6 to 8 includes a reference to paragraph 28 or 29; and in sub-paragraph (2) the reference to paragraphs 6 to 8 includes a reference to paragraph 29.").
Page 173, line 23, after ("9") insert ("or 28 and 29").
Page 176, line 4, at end insert--
("Advisory rights for appropriate diocesan authorities
27.--(1) This paragraph applies to a voluntary aided or foundation school which is a Church of England, Church in Wales or Roman Catholic Church school.

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(2) If the school is a voluntary aided school, the appropriate diocesan officer shall have the same advisory rights in relation to the appointment, engagement or dismissal of teachers at the school as are for the time being exercisable by the chief education officer in accordance with paragraph 2(3).
(3) If the school is a foundation school, the governing body may agree with the appropriate diocesan authority to accord to the appropriate diocesan officer--
(a) with respect to all teachers at the school, or
(b) with respect to any particular description of such teachers,
the same advisory rights in relation to their appointment, engagement or dismissal as are exercisable by the chief education officer in accordance with paragraph 2(3).
(4) The agreement of the governing body for the purposes of sub-paragraph (3) must be given in writing and may only be withdrawn by notice in writing to the appropriate diocesan authority.
(5) In paragraphs 18 and 25, as they apply to a school within sub-paragraph (2) or (3) above, references to the chief education officer accordingly include the appropriate diocesan officer, so far as necessary for giving effect to any advisory rights exercisable by him under this paragraph.
(6) In this paragraph "the appropriate diocesan officer" means such person as the appropriate diocesan authority may nominate.").
Page 176, line 4, at end insert--
("Appointment of head teachers for schools of Roman Catholic religious orders
28.--(1) This paragraph applies to a voluntary aided school if the trustees under a trust deed relating to the school are also the trustees of a Roman Catholic religious order.
(2) Subject to sub-paragraph (6), sub-paragraphs (3) to (5) shall have effect in relation to the filling of a vacancy in the post of head teacher of the school, in place of paragraphs 6 to 8.
(3) The governing body shall notify the Major Superior of the vacancy in writing.
(4) The governing body shall--
(a) interview such persons who are members of the order as are proposed as candidates for appointment to the post by the Major Superior; and
(b) appoint to the post one of the persons so interviewed by them unless, by virtue of sub-paragraph (5) or otherwise, they have good reason for not making any such appointment.
(5) No person shall be appointed under sub-paragraph (4)(b) if he does not meet any staff qualification requirements which are applicable in relation to his appointment.
(6) If no appointment is made by the governing body under sub-paragraph (4)(b), paragraphs 6 to 8 shall have effect in relation to the filling of the vacancy.
(7) In this paragraph--
"the Major Superior" means the Major Superior of the order;
"the order" means the order mentioned in sub-paragraph (1);
"Roman Catholic religious order" means a Roman Catholic religious institute or society of apostolic life.
Selection procedures involving whole governing body

29.--(1) If the governing body of a voluntary aided school so determine (and paragraph 28 does not apply), sub-paragraphs (2) to (6) below shall apply in relation to the filling of a vacancy in the post of head teacher or deputy head teacher of the school, in place of paragraphs 7 and 8.

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(2) No selection panel need be appointed by the governing body under paragraph 7(1), but the following provisions, namely--
(a) paragraph 7(2)(a) and (b),
(b) paragraph 7(3), and
(c) paragraph 7(6),
shall apply to the governing body or (as the case may be) to any decision of that body taken by virtue of this paragraph as it applies to a selection panel or (as the case may be) to any decision of such a panel taken under paragraph 7.
(3) If, within the period of 14 days beginning with the date when they receive a notification under paragraph 7(2)(a) (as it applies in accordance with sub-paragraph (2) above) the local education authority make written representations to the governing body that any of the applicants selected by them is not a suitable person for appointment to the post of head teacher, the governing body shall not appoint that person unless they have--
(a) considered those representations, and
(b) notified the authority of their response to the representations.
(4) The governing body shall not appoint any person if he does not meet any staff qualification requirements which are applicable in relation to his appointment.
(5) If the governing body do not appoint any person interviewed by them, the governing body--
(a) may, if they think fit, re-advertise the vacancy in the manner required by paragraph 6, and
(b) whether or not they re-advertise the vacancy, may repeat the steps mentioned in paragraph 7(2)(a) and (b) (as they apply in accordance with sub-paragraph (2) above).
(6) Paragraph 7(7) shall apply for the purposes of this paragraph.").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Schedule 17, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 55 [Staffing for non-school activities]:

Lord McIntosh of Haringey moved Amendment No. 176G:


Page 44, line 18, leave out ("or by virtue of section 48(2) or (4)").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

On Question, Whether Clause 55, as amended, shall stand part of the Bill?

Lord Pilkington of Oxenford: Following on from the previous amendment, in respect of what other walk of life would you put in an Act of Parliament a provision such as how a school is to employ people who maintain non-school activities and relative staffing provision? I would like the noble Lord to tell me why it is that the headmaster and governing body of a school are not able to deal with these matters.

I shall not dwell on the issue. This is nannying of the highest order. One is talking about a school which has a reputable governing body and head teacher, and the Government wish to put in an Act of Parliament how they should govern the school. Does the Minister think the management of Marks and Spencer would accept that? This relates to employing extra, part-time staff and 25 trees will have to be chopped down to put this in the Bill. Is it necessary? What is it about governing bodies that makes them so helpless that they cannot employ a couple of extra people to organise a fete in the evening?

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I would like the Minister to tell us why he has to put this sort of thing in a Bill? It seems to me to be a waste of trees. I beg to move.


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