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Lord Hardie moved Amendment No. 100:


Page 142, line 26, at end insert--

("Effect of child's silence at trial

. Nothing in section (Effect of child's silence at trial) of this Act shall apply where the offence was committed before the commencement of that section.").

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 100 formally.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

31 Mar 1998 : Column 262

Schedule 10 [Repeals]:

Lord Hardie moved Amendments Nos. 101 to 104:


Page 144, line 16, at beginning insert--
("30 Geo 3 c.48.Treason Act 1790.The whole Act.
36 Geo 3 c.7.Treason Act 1795.The whole Act.
36 Geo 3 c.31.Treason by Women Act (Ireland) 1796.The whole Act.
57 Geo 3 c.6.Treason Act 1817.The whole Act.
11 & 12 Vict c.12.Treason Felony Act 1848.Section 2.
21 & 22 Geo 5 c.24.Sentence of Death (Expectant Mothers) Act 1931.The whole Act.")

Page 144, line 25, at end insert--
("1945 c.15 (N.I.).Criminal Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 1945.Sections 32 and 33.")

Page 144, line 46, column 3, at beginning insert--
("In section 1, in subsections (8)(b) and (8A) the words "37 or".")

Page 146, line 50, column 3, at end insert--
("In section 35, in subsection (1), the words "who has attained the age of fourteen years" and subsection (6).")

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg leave to move Amendments Nos. 101 to 104 en bloc.

On Question, amendments agreed to.

In the Title:

Lord Hardie moved Amendment No. 105:


Line 3, after ("incapax") insert ("and to make provision as to the effect of a child's failure to give evidence at his trial; to abolish the death penalty for treason and piracy").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

An amendment (privilege) made.

Lord Williams of Mostyn: My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill do now pass.

I think that, historically, speeches on this particular occasion have become, I am told by colleagues on all sides of the House, too lengthy. I therefore will simply thank everyone who has participated in the debates on this Bill. We have had eight days of careful work. I do not think there has been a discourteous word spoken and I am bound to say that, apart from all the help I have had from all sides of the House, the discussions that we have had behind the scenes, either in correspondence or face to face, have been extremely helpful. The only last word I would say is that to produce a Bill of this quality and nature in so short a time is a real tribute to the quality of the officials who have worked tirelessly and have given all possible cheerful and willing support to all Members of your Lordships' House, whether the approaches have

31 Mar 1998 : Column 263

been made directly by agreement or indirectly through me. I therefore thank everyone who has participated in this generous-hearted way.

Moved, That the Bill do now pass.--(Lord Williams of Mostyn.)

Lord Henley: My Lords, I should like to start by saying that I am in total agreement with the noble Lord about the historical tradition and the fact that the Bill-do-now-pass speeches have grown too long over the years. I am very grateful that the noble Lord has done his bit to make them briefer. The Bill itself has grown somewhat in the course of its passage through this House. When we started we had a Bill of about 122 pages. After Report and before this stage we had grown to 148 pages. According to my reckoning that is a 20 per cent. increase. Similarly we have grown from 96 clauses to 103 clauses. Since then we have dealt with 85 government amendments at Third Reading, with at least five new clauses, admittedly one of which the Government themselves were not so keen on having, but no doubt that is a matter they can deal with in due course.

The Bill has grown, and I make that point merely to say that, first of all, I thank the noble Lord for the constructive way in which he has dealt with it. He has accepted a number of points which have been put to him from these Benches, from our colleagues on the Liberal Democrat Benches and from those on the Cross-Benches. I think that reflects well on the Government and it also shows the value of the work of this House in being able to make improvements to the Bill during the course of its passage here.

I also echo exactly what the noble Lord said in paying tribute to all those who have taken part in the debates on this Bill. I would only want to single out one particular individual, and that is my noble friend and Whip, Lady Anelay, who has taken on a far greater burden on this Bill than I should have imposed on her, especially in the light of her other responsibilities, and particularly in view of the fact that she and the noble Lord, Lord Williams, will be attending to further business after this particular business has ceased--at which point I suspect that I, and possibly the noble and learned Lord will have disappeared from the Chamber.

Lord McNally: My Lords, I will follow those examples of brevity. In many ways I feel like an English footballer at Chelsea football club because I have been surrounded by much superior talent during the passage of this Bill. I am most grateful for that talent and the way in which they have contributed from these Benches. The Government have sometimes used a rhetoric which we have found too robust and too reminiscent of the previous Home Secretary. At the heart of this Bill is a community approach to crime and disorder, which we very much welcome and wish to see encouraged. We appreciate the way that Ministers have treated us with courtesy and growing flexibility in listening to our arguments. The Bill has for me been an educative experience, and much of that education has come from

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the clear way that the Minister and his distinguished colleagues have dealt with our points. For that we are truly grateful.

Viscount Tenby: My Lords, I too rise to congratulate the Government on the passage of this important Bill. It has been an almost Sisyphean slog and the burden on the government team has been considerable. I understand the point about being brief on this occasion. Would that that thought had been mirrored during the passage of the Bill.

Two things have struck me about the proceedings. First, for a Bill which from the outset attracted a considerable amount of support from all sides of the House, an unconscionable number of amendments were put down. That surely shows this House in its most favourable light, as an amending Chamber of expert opinion and experience. Secondly, I say with great sincerity that I can rarely recall a Bill which has been conducted in an atmosphere of such good will and courtesy. Credit for that must principally go to the Front Bench spokesmen. I draw no inferences, but it may not be entirely without significance that it is an all-Celtic team. I wish this important measure every success in its passage through another place.

The Earl of Mar and Kellie: My Lords, I am extremely grateful for all the letters I have received. It was a great pleasure to be kept informed of where I was probably going wrong. Perhaps I may upstage the noble Lord, Lord Henley, by saying that in Scotland we have gone up from six measures to eight, which I believe constitutes a 33 1/3 increase.

On Question, Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.

Criminal Legal Aid (Scotland) (Prescribed Proceedings) Amendment Regulations 1998

Civil Legal Aid (Financial Conditions) (Scotland) Regulations 1998

Advice and Assistance (Financial Conditions) (Scotland) Regulations 1998

Advice and Assistance (Assistance by Way of Representation) (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1998

10.12 p.m.

Lord Hardie: I beg to move the regulations en bloc. The regulations make provision for the uprating of eligibility limits and for another necessary change to the system of legal aid in Scotland. The Law Society of Scotland has written to noble Lords indicating that it has no adverse comments about the regulations. I commend the regulations to your Lordships' House.

31 Mar 1998 : Column 265

Moved, That the draft regulations laid before the House on 4th March be approved [26th Report from the Joint Committee]--(Lord Hardie.)

Lord Burnham: My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for presenting these regulations to the House. We are entirely happy with them as they stand.

Lord Thomas of Gresford: My Lords, we have considered these draft regulations and are entirely happy with them. We have no further comment to make.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Criminal Justice (International Co-operation) (Amendment) Bill [H.L.]

10.14 p.m.

Lord Evans of Parkside: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into Committee on this Bill.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.--(Lord Evans of Parkside.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES in the Chair.]

Clause 1 [Manufacture and supply of scheduled substances]:


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