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Division No. 2


Ackner, L.
Aldington, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L. [Teller.]
Ashbourne, L.
Bath and Wells, Bp.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Beloff, L.
Blatch, B.
Braine of Wheatley, L.
Brentford, V.
Brookes, L.
Caithness, E.
Calverley, L.
Carlisle, Bp.
Carnock, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Coleraine, L.
Cranbrook, E.
Cuckney, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Elton, L.
Gisborough, L.
Greenway, L.
Halsbury, E.
Hamilton of Dalzell, L.
Harmar-Nicholls, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hemphill, L.
Hereford, Bp.
Holderness, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hylton, L.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Jeffreys, L.
Kenilworth, L.
Leicester, Bp.
Leigh, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Longford, E.
Lucas of Chilworth, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Meston, L.
Milverton, L.
Minto, E.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monckton of Brenchley, V.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Nelson, E.
Newall, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Orr-Ewing, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Perth, E.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Powis, E.
Prior, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Rochester, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandwich, E.
Seccombe, B.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Swansea, L.
Swinfen, L.
Taverne, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Trefgarne, L.
Waddington, L.
Weatherill, L.
Wynford, L.
Young, B. [Teller.]


Acton, L.
Addington, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alport, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Barnett, L.
Berkeley, L.
Birdwood, L.
Birkett, L.
Blackstone, B.
Bledisloe, V.
Borrie, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Burlison, L.
Carew, L.
Carlisle, E.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carter, L. [Teller.]
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chandos, V.
Clancarty, E.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cocks of Hartcliffe, L.
David, B.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Diamond, L.
Dixon, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fitt, L.
Gallacher, L.
Geraint, L.
Gilbert, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenamara, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Hardie, L.
Hayman, B.
Henderson of Brompton, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howell, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L. [Lord Chancellor.]
Islwyn, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kilbracken, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lovell-Davis, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L. [Teller.]
McNair, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mallalieu, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Milner of Leeds, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Monson, L.
Montague of Oxford, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Newby, L.
Nicol, B.
Onslow, E.
Orme, L.
Paul, L.
Peston, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renwick of Clifton, L.
Richard, L. [Lord Privy Seal.]
Rogers of Riverside, L.
Russell, E.
Sefton of Garston, L.
Sewel, L.
Shepherd, L.
Shore of Stepney, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Highbury, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Varley, L.
Walker of Doncaster, L.
Wallace of Coslany, L.
Walpole, L.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
Wharton, B.
Whitty, L.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Young of Dartington, L.
Young of Old Scone, B.

Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.

31 Mar 1998 : Column 199

Clause 20 [Procedural provisions with respect to orders]:

6.20 p.m.

The Lord Advocate (Lord Hardie) moved Amendment No. 7:

Page 17, line 21, after ("shall") and insert (", without prejudice to the determination of an application under subsection (7)(b) above made after the lodging of the appeal,").

The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, the purpose and effect of this government amendment is to make it clear that a sheriff may determine an application to vary or revoke an antisocial behaviour or sex offender order even where an appeal against the original order has been lodged.

At Report stage we discussed in some detail the amendments laid by the noble Earl, Lord Mar and Kellie, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Drumadoon, which would have allowed the court to suspend antisocial behaviour and sex offender orders pending the disposal of an appeal. I indicated at that time that there was no need for such an amendment because the subject of an order may at any time apply to the sheriff on a summary application to have an order varied or revoked.

31 Mar 1998 : Column 200

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Drumadoon, was kind enough to agree that there was no need for his amendment if that was the case, and I undertook to consider the matter further to ensure that there could be no doubt about this. Having looked at the matter in detail, I agree that it would be helpful to make it explicit on the face of the Bill that the provision in Clause 20(10) that orders continue to have effect pending the disposal of the appeal is without prejudice to the provision in Clause 20(7)(b) that orders may at any time be varied or revoked on a summary application by the applicant or the person against whom the order is made. This amendment does that. I beg to move.

The Earl of Mar and Kellie: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord. I laid the amendment; I am now content with what he has proposed.

Lord Henley: My Lords, in the absence of my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Drumadoon, and confessing to a total absence of any knowledge of Scots law, I gained the impression that this was responding to some of the concerns of my noble and learned friend. That being the case, on behalf of my noble and learned friend I thank the noble and learned Lord the Lord Advocate for the amendment and have no objections to it.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

The Earl of Mar and Kellie moved Amendment No. 8:

After Clause 20, insert the following new clause--

Supervised attendance orders for those convicted outwith Scotland

(" .--(1) A court shall make a supervised attendance order under section 235 of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 in the circumstances specified in subsection (2) below.
(2) The circumstances referred to in subsection (1) above are that the offender--
(a) is of over 18 years of age; and
(b) has been convicted of an offence in a jurisdiction outwith Scotland in respect of which the penalty was a period of imprisonment.").

The noble Earl said: My Lords, the purpose of Amendment No. 8 is one that I have drawn to your Lordships' attention on previous occasions, particularly during the passage of the Crime and Punishment (Scotland) Bill last year.

There is a real need for powers of supervision over offenders convicted and imprisoned overseas and who are deported back to Scotland. This situation has been highlighted by the case of Mr. Archibald McCafferty who was deported to Scotland from Australia at the end of a life sentence for murder. There is another similar case about to evolve in Australia. As international mobility and freedom of passage becomes more prevalent, so will the number of Scots being gaoled abroad become equally so.

It has been said to me that there may be injustice and technical difficulty in matching offences and sentences from other jurisdictions. The Secretary of State will be able to identify the circumstances in which an

31 Mar 1998 : Column 201

ex-prisoner would qualify for and benefit from supervision. Supervision may have some benefits by way of a commitment by the local authority social work department to assist that person in his resettlement in Scotland. Mr. McCafferty seems not to have received any help from the local authority but, curiously, was assisted by an ex-prisoner.

The problem of Scots being imprisoned abroad and deported back to Scotland on liberation will grow. It would be sensible to take this action now rather than waiting until such an offender unrepentantly reoffends in Scotland, thereby causing a public outcry. It would also send out a useful message to all Scots that their actions abroad will not be without consequence on their return to Scotland. I beg to move.

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