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3.30 p.m.

Lord Sewel moved Amendment No. 45:

Page 30, column 2, leave out from beginning of line 53 to end of line 15 on page 31 and insert--
(""2. Darllenwch y papur pleidleisio yn ofalus. Ar y papur pleidleisio rhowch groes (X) yn y blwch i'r dde o'r gosodiad yr ydych yn pleidleisio drosto. Peidiwch a rhoi unrhyw farc arall ar y papur pleidleisio neu fe all na chaiff eich pleidlais ei chyfrif. Os na fedrwch bleidleisio heb gymorth, rhaid i'r person sy'n eich cynorthwyo beidio a datgelu sut yr ydych wedi pleidleisio.",")

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move Amendment No. 45.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Sewel moved Amendments Nos. 46 and 47:

Page 36, line 5, leave out ("at the same referendum") and insert ("in any electoral area").
Page 36, line 25, at end insert--


County / County Borough
Sir / Bwrdeistref Sirol
Electoral Area(s)
Rhanbarth(au) Etholiadol
Polling District
Dosbarth Pleidleisio
Name of Proxy
Enw'r Dirprwy ..........................
Cyfeiriad ..............................
is hereby appointed as proxy for (name of elector)
drwy hyn yn ddirprwy dros (enw'r etholwr(aig)) .................
who is qualified to be registered for (qualifying address)
sy'n gymwys i'w gofrestru/i'w chofrestru ar gyfer (cyfeiriad cymhwyso) .....................................................

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to vote for him/her at
i bleidleisio drosto/drosti yn
the referendum on (date)
y refferendwm ar (dyddiad) ..................
Signed .............. Date ..................
Llofnod ............. Dyddiad ...............
Electoral Registration Officer
Swyddog Cofrestru Etholiadol
1. This proxy paper gives you the right to vote as proxy on behalf of the elector whose name is given overleaf.
1. Rhydd y papur dirprwy hwn hawl i chi bleidleisio fel dirprwy dros yr etholwr(aig) a enwir drosodd.
2. Your appointment as proxy will be for the referendum only. You have the right to vote as proxy only at the referendum specified in the proxy paper.
2. Penodir chi yn ddirprwy ar gyfer y refferendwm yn unig. Mae gennych hawl i bleidleisio fel dirprwy yn y refferendwm a bennir yn y papur dirprwy yn unig.
3. Prior to the elector applying to have you appointed as proxy you should have been consulted and asked if you were capable of being, and willing to be, appointed as proxy, or you should have signed a statement to the effect that you were capable of being, and were willing to be appointed as proxy. You are capable of being appointed as proxy if you are at least 18 years old on polling day, a British or other Commonwealth citizen, a citizen of any other member state of the European Union, a citizen of the Republic of Ireland and not for any reason disqualified from voting. If for any reason you are not capable of being, or are not willing to be, the proxy please advise the elector, without delay, in order that the elector may cancel the appointment.
3. Cyn i'r etholwr(aig) wneud cais i chi gael eich penodi yn ddirprwy, dylid bod wedi ymgynghori a chi a gofyn i chi a oeddech yn gymwys i fod yn ddirprwy ac yn fodlon i gael eich penodi, neu dylech fod wedi llofnodi datganiad eich bod yn gymwys i fod yn ddirprwy ac yn fodlon i gael eich penodi. Yr ydych yn gymwys i'ch penodi yn ddirprwy os ydych yn 18 oed o leiaf ar y dyddiad pleidleisio, yn ddinesydd Prydeinig neu'n ddinesydd un arall o wledydd y Gymanwlad, yn ddinesydd un arall o aelod-wladwriaethau yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, yn ddinesydd Gweriniaeth Iwerddon a heb eich gwahardd rhag pleidleisio am unrhyw reswm. Os nad ydych, am unrhyw reswm, yn gallu bod yn ddirprwy neu yn fodlon cael eich penodi yn ddirprwy, rhowch wybod i'r etholwr(aig), yn ddioed, er mwyn i'r etholwr(aig) ddileu'r penodiad.
4. You may vote as proxy at the polling station allotted to the elector on whose behalf you are appointed. However, you may not vote as proxy in any electoral area for more than two electors of whom you are not the husband, wife, parent, grandparent, brother, sister, child or grandchild. Shortly before polling day you will be sent a proxy poll card telling you where the polling station is. You do not need to take either the poll card or this proxy paper to the polling station but you may find it helpful to do so. You should note that the elector may still vote in person. If a ballot paper is issued to the elector at the polling station before you apply there for a ballot paper as the proxy, you will not be entitled to vote as the proxy.
4. Cewch bleidleisio fel dirprwy yn yr orsaf bleidleisio a bennwyd i'r etholwr(aig) y penodwyd chi drosto/drosti. Er hynny, ni chewch bleidleisio fel dirprwy mewn unrhyw ranbarth etholiadol dros fwy na dau o etholwyr nad ydych yn wr, gwraig, rhiant, tad-cu neu fam-gu, brawd, chwaer, plentyn, wyr neu wyres iddynt. Ychydig cyn y dyddiad pleidleisio anfonir cerdyn pleidleisio dirprwy atoch yn dweud lle mae'r orsaf bleidleisio. Nid oes angen i chi fynd a'r cerdyn pleidleisio na'r papur dirprwy hwn gyda chi i'r orsaf

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bleidleisio, ond hwyrach y bydd o gymorth i chi wneud hynny. Sylwer y caiff yr etholwr(aig) ddal i bleidleisio yn bersonol. Os rhoddir papur pleidleisio i'r etholwr(aig) yn yr orsaf bleidleisio cyn i chi wneud cais yno am bapur pleidleisio fel y dirprwy, ni fydd gennych hawl i bleidleisio fel y dirprwy.
5. You may also apply to vote by post as proxy at the referendum if the Electoral Registration Officer is satisfied that you cannot reasonably be expected to vote in person at the elector's polling station.
Any application to vote by post as proxy should be made on Form DR93 which may be obtained from the Electoral Registration Officer. You should note that the Electoral Registration Officer cannot allow an application to vote by post at the referendum if he receives it after 5.00 pm on the eleventh working day before the poll.
5. Cewch wneud cais hefyd am bleidleisio drwy'r post fel dirprwy yn y refferendwm os yw'r Swyddog Cofrestru Etholiadol yn fodlon nad yw'n rhesymol disgwyl i chi bleidleisio'n bersonol yng ngorsaf bleidleisio yr etholwr(aig).
Dylai unrhyw gais am bleidleisio drwy'r post fel dirprwy gael ei wneud ar Ffurflen DR93 y gellir ei chael oddi wrth y Swyddog Cofrestru Etholiadol. Sylwer na all y Swyddog Cofrestru Etholiadol ganiatau cais am bleidleisio drwy'r post yn y refferendwm os daw'r cais i law ar ol 5.00 pm ar yr unfed diwrnod gwaith ar ddeg cyn y bleidlais.
6. It is an offence to vote, whether in person or by post, as proxy for some other person if you know that person is subject to a legal incapacity to vote (eg if that person has been convicted and is detained in a penal institution in pursuance of his sentence).
6. Mae'n drosedd pleidleisio, boed yn bersonol neu drwy'r post, fel dirprwy dros ryw berson arall os gwyddoch fod y person hwnnw yn methu yn gyfreithiol a phleidleisio, (e.e. os yw'r person wedi'i gollfarnu ac wedi'i gadw mewn carchar yn unol a'i ddedfryd).").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

In the Title:

[Amendments Nos. 48 and 49 not moved.]

3.33 p.m.

Lord Sewel: My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill do now pass. At Second Reading I said that this Bill was short and simple. Following the amendments on Report which changed the Bill from six to 36 pages, I can hardly claim that it remains a short Bill. It is however still in essence a simple Bill. It provides for the people of Scotland and Wales to be asked whether they support our proposals for a Scottish parliament and a Welsh assembly. It also sets out the detailed provisions for the conduct of the two referendums.

This Bill has been the subject of far-ranging debate over the past few weeks. Your Lordships have scrutinised it thoroughly and without the many frivolous amendments that have been encountered in another place. Amendments have been moved in an attempt to promote debate on a range of important subjects, including eligibility to vote, broadcasting, the provision of information to voters, thresholds and the machinery for future referendums.

We have listened carefully to the arguments that have been advanced and have set out why we believe that our approach is right. The merits of including provisions for the conduct of the referendum in the Bill have been examined, and we have been pleased to do that.

There are areas in which your Lordships' House has disagreed with the Government. Another place will shortly examine those areas. We have made it clear that for very good reasons we intend to hold the referendums

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in Scotland and Wales on 11th and 18th September respectively. Subject to the views of another place, we intend that the amendment passed in Committee which requires the referendums to be held on the same day should be overturned. Similarly, subject to the views of another place, we intend that the amendment passed on Report relating to income tax should be overturned on the ground that it is both unnecessary and undesirable.

It is worth noting that the time spent by this House on the Bill is greater than that spent on either the Referendum Act 1975 or the relevant provisions of the Scotland and Wales Acts 1978. I make no complaint about that. The quality of the debate in your Lordships' House has, as always, generally been of the highest order. For the most part the debate has focused on the issues relating directly to the referendums rather than devolution more generally. In particular, the Opposition Front Bench should take credit for focusing the debate so clearly on the substance of the Bill.

It is customary on an occasion like this to thank all those who have contributed to the consideration of the Bill. I am more than happy to do so on this occasion. One should also recognise that there are those who appeared as major figures in the debate but who were not physically present in your Lordships' House. The Italian waiter has become an old friend. I feel that I have developed a close, but perhaps not enduring, relationship with the daughter of the noble Lord, Lord Mackay. Most of your Lordships have made admirable contributions to the debate. As we have moved on, many substantial and proper contributions have been made, as befits your Lordships' House in scrutinising such an important piece of legislation.

This Bill is in a very real sense a beginning on the way to the establishment of a Welsh assembly and a Scottish parliament. Tomorrow we have a debate on the White Papers. We on this side of the House look forward with confidence to the passage of the substantive Bills. There will be plenty of opportunities for noble Lords to continue what has been a good-humoured and courteous yet serious debate on the topics that we have been addressing over the past few days. I suspect that we shall not want for opportunities to take forward the debate in the days and perhaps evenings that lie ahead. At this stage, I commend the Bill to your Lordships.

Moved, That the Bill do now pass.--(Lord Sewel.)

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