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Baroness Gardner of Parkes: The noble Baroness said that several Members of the Committee on this side have stated that business people, visitors and so on would be seeking such help. However, the typical pattern is that people arrive in this country and declare on the statement that they will not require any social help whatever but within three days they present themselves, having changed their mind, stating that they would like to claim asylum. That is a very common picture.

Baroness Hollis of Heigham: No. The picture that we are trying to paint is of someone who is a student, a tourist or a businessman and is likely to be applying after a month, three months or six months and not within two to three days after arrival in this country. All the evidence from doctors, the clergy, charities and the various other organisations involved suggests that those who are most in need of asylum are precisely those who are too frightened and intimidated to apply for it at the port of entry.

The amendment has a very modest aim. It does not challenge the central thrust of the Bill; indeed, it does something much simpler. It asks that those who come to this country seeking asylum with genuine fear of persecution should be given three days' grace to allow them to report themselves to the immigration authorities. I repeat: three days' grace. We are not talking about a few months, a few years or indeed something that will involve enormous public expenditure; we are talking about three days' grace for some of the most distressed and vulnerable people in the country.

1 Jul 1996 : Column 1261

Finally, I return to the comment made in the judgment of Lord Justice Simon Brown. If such a modest amendment cannot be accepted by the Government, are we really willing to condemn asylum seekers to contemplating,


    "a life so destitute that to my mind no civilised nation can tolerate it"?
That is the choice. I repeat: a life of such destitution that,


    "no civilised nation can tolerate it".
Three days' grace would allow those who are genuine asylum seekers to have the confidence and the support to do what they should perhaps have done at the port of entry--namely, to apply for asylum--but could not by reason of their health or their fears. If Members of the Committee were in their shoes, I am sure that that is what they would do. In that hope, I should like to test the opinion of the Committee.

5.54 p.m.

On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 6 ), as an amendment to Amendment No. 4, shall be agreed to?

Their Lordships divided: Contents, 158; Not-Contents, 155.

Division No. 1

CONTENTS

Ackner, L.
Addington, L.
Annan, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bancroft, L.
Barnett, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Birk, B.
Blackstone, B.
Borrie, L.
Brentford, V.
Bridges, L.
Brightman, L.
Broadbridge, L.
Bruce of Donington, L.
Callaghan of Cardiff, L.
Carmichael of Kelvingrove, L.
Carr of Hadley, L.
Castle of Blackburn, B.
Chichester, Bp.
Chorley, L.
Clancarty, E.
Cledwyn of Penrhos, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Dainton, L.
Darcy (de Knayth), B.
David, B.
Dean of Beswick, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Desai, L.
Diamond, L.
Donaldson of Kingsbridge, L.
Donaldson of Lymington, L.
Donoughue, L.
Dormand of Easington, L.
Drogheda, E.
Dubs, L.
Ewing of Kirkford, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkender, B.
Falkland, V.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Fisher of Rednal, B.
Gage, V.
Gallacher, L.
Geraint, L.
Gladwin of Clee, L.
Glenamara, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L. [Teller.]
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Grey, E.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Greenwich, L.
Harrowby, E.
Haskel, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollick, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooson, L.
Howell, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hylton, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jakobovits, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jeger, B.
Jenkins of Hillhead, L.
Jenkins of Putney, L.
Judd, L.
Kennet, L.
Kilmarnock, L.
Kinloss, Ly.
Kintore, E.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lincoln, Bp.
Listowel, E.
Lockwood, B.
Longford, E.
Lovell-Davis, L.
McCarthy, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Mayhew, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Meston, L.
Mishcon, L.
Molloy, L.
Monkswell, L.
Morris of Castle Morris, L.
Murray of Epping Forest, L.
Nicol, B.
Ogmore, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Palmer, L.
Peston, L.
Phillips of Ellesmere, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Richard, L.
Ripon, Bp.
Rix, L.
Robson of Kiddington, B.
Rochester, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Russell, E. [Teller.]
Sainsbury, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sandwich, E.
Scanlon, L.
Seear, B.
Serota, B.
Sewel, L.
Shaughnessy, L.
Shepherd, L.
Simon, V.
Simon of Glaisdale, L.
Stallard, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strafford, E.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Gryfe, L.
Temple of Stowe, E.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thurso, V.
Tonypandy, V.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Varley, L.
Wallace of Coslany, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Warnock, B.
Wharton, B.
White, B.
Wigoder, L.
Wilberforce, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williams of Mostyn, L.
Winchilsea and Nottingham, E.
Winston, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Addison, V.
Ailsa, M.
Aldington, L.
Alexander of Tunis, E.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Barber, L.
Barber of Tewkesbury, L.
Belhaven and Stenton, L.
Birdwood, L.
Blaker, L.
Blatch, B.
Blyth, L.
Boardman, L.
Bowness, L.
Boyd-Carpenter, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bruntisfield, L.
Burnham, L.
Butterworth, L.
Caithness, E.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell of Croy, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Chelmsford, V.
Chesham, L. [Teller.]
Clanwilliam, E.
Clark of Kempston, L.
Coleraine, L.
Colwyn, L.
Courtown, E.
Cranborne, V. [Lord Privy Seal.]
Cromer, E.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Dacre of Glanton, L.
De L'Isle, V.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denton of Wakefield, B.
Digby, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Downshire, M.
Dundee, E.
Eden of Winton, L.
Ellenborough, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Gainford, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Gibson-Watt, L.
Gilmour of Craigmillar, L.
Goschen, V.
Gray of Contin, L.
Greenway, L.
Hailsham of Saint Marylebone, L.
Harding of Petherton, L.
Harlech, L.
Harmsworth, L.
Harris of Peckham, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Hesketh, L.
Holderness, L.
HolmPatrick, L.
Hooper, B.
Howe, E.
Hylton-Foster, B.
Ilchester, E.
Inchcape, E.
Inglewood, L.
Johnston of Rockport, L.
Kimball, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lauderdale, E.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layton, L.
Leigh, L.
Lindsay, E.
Lindsey and Abingdon, E.
Lucas, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McConnell, L.
Mackay of Ardbrecknish, L.
Mackay of Drumadoon, L.
Macleod of Borve, B.
Manton, L.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Massereene and Ferrard, V.
Merrivale, L.
Mersey, V.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Milverton, L.
Monk Bretton, L.
Monson, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Mottistone, L.
Mountevans, L.
Mountgarret, V.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moyne, L.
Munster, E.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Napier and Ettrick, L.
Nelson, E.
Norfolk, D.
Norrie, L.
Northesk, E.
O'Cathain, B.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pender, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Prentice, L.
Prior, L.
Rankeillour, L.
Rawlings, B.
Rees, L.
Rennell, L.
Renton, L.
Renwick, L.
Romney, E.
St. Davids, V.
Saint Oswald, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B.
Sharples, B.
Stewartby, L.
Strange, B.
Strathclyde, L. [Teller.]
Strathcona and Mount Royal, L.
Sudeley, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tenby, V.
Teviot, L.
Thomas of Gwydir, L.
Tollemache, L.
Trumpington, B.
Vivian, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Waverley, V.
Wedgwood, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wise, L.
Wolfson, L.
Wyatt of Weeford, L.
Wynford, L.

Resolved in the affirmative, and amendment agreed to accordingly.

1 Jul 1996 : Column 1263

6.5 p.m.

[Amendments Nos. 7 to 14, as amendments to Amendment No. 4, not moved.]


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