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Earl Howe: My Lords, that in itself would require an essay and perhaps more debating time than is available this afternoon. I should be happy to encapsulate in as brief a space as possible, perhaps on paper, to the noble Lord, the precise aspects in which Scottish charitable law differs from English law. Rather than read out the extensive notes which I have here, perhaps the noble Lord will accept that suggestion.

Lord Judd: My Lords, while we are looking at this matter, I wonder whether I may draw attention to Amendment No. 42 and merely register a point. While we are delighted to see that the Government are proposing this amendment and that the lines in question should be deleted, we are concerned that at several points in the Bill in the early stages of drafting there have been extraordinarily general provisions. We seek an assurance from the Minister that he will take that up with those concerned to make sure that future legislation is specific. It is distressing that we should always have to go back to passages like this in order to make sure that very sweeping generalisations are removed.

Earl Howe: My Lords, with the leave of the House, as we are on Report, I shall respond very briefly to the noble Lord, Lord Judd. Amendments Nos. 42, 45 and 48 arise as a result of examination of the Bill since its introduction. Some slight inconsistencies have been revealed between the provisions of Part III of the schedule, which deals with succession to charitable property in Scotland, and their counterparts for England, Wales and Northern Ireland. As I say, we are seeking to bring Scottish provisions into line with those which apply elsewhere in the United Kingdom. These amendments simply make minor drafting changes.

I share the noble Lord's frustration at having to make such alterations and to bring in general provisions but I am advised that they are extremely necessary and desirable for the good governance of the country.

27 Feb 1996 : Column 1400

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Earl Howe moved Amendments Nos. 42 to 49:


Page 77, leave out lines 29 and 30.
Page 77, line 32, leave out ("comes into force") and insert ("is made").
Page 77, line 39, leave out from beginning to ("with") in line 42 and insert ("for the court to make an order--
(a) providing that paragraph 9 shall cease to apply to that property or part; and
(b) exercising,").
Page 77, leave out lines 45 to 47 and insert--
("( ) On an application under sub-paragraph (1), the court may exercise any such power as is mentioned in sub-paragraph (1)(b) to make such order as it considers to be appropriate, whether or not that power would normally be exercisable at the instance of such a petitioner.").
Page 78, line 5, leave out ("may") and insert ("--
(a) if he has not given a direction under paragraph 9, may; and
(b) if he has given such a direction, shall,").
Page 78, line 8, at end insert--
("( ) On an application under sub-paragraph (1), the court may, subject to any such direction, exercise any such power to make such order as it considers to be appropriate, whether or not that power would normally be exercisable at the instance of the Lord Advocate.").
Page 78, line 10, leave out from beginning to ("affect") in line 11, and insert ("None of the following, that is to say, a warrant, a direction under paragraph 10 or an order under paragraph 11 or 12 shall").
Page 78, line 45, leave out ("comes into force") and insert ("is made").

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Schedule 8 [Transitory and transitional provisions]:

Earl Howe moved Amendment No. 50:


Page 86, leave out lines 44 to 47 and insert--
("(4) If any such officer or man is transferred to a reserve force on or after the day appointed for the purposes of Part I of Schedule (Application of Act to transitional members)--
(a) he shall be regarded for the purposes of paragraph 2 of that Schedule as if he had been a member of that force since immediately before the appointed day;
(b) the references in that paragraph to "that time" shall be taken to refer to the time at which he was transferred to the reserve force.").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Earl Howe moved Amendment No. 51:


After Schedule 8, insert the following new schedule--

("Schedule
Application of Act to transitional members
Part I
The transitional class of members of the reserve forces

1.--(1) The transitional class consists of persons who--
(a) are members of a reserve force;
(b) for the time being fall within paragraph 2 or 3; and
(c) have not made an election under paragraph 4.
(2) In this Schedule "transitional member" means a member of a reserve force who for the time being is a member of the transitional class; and "transitional officer" and "transitional man" shall be construed accordingly.

27 Feb 1996 : Column 1401


(3) In this Part of this Schedule "the appointed day" means such day as the Secretary of State may by order made by statutory instrument appoint for the purposes of this Part of this Schedule.
2. A person who, immediately before the appointed day, was an officer or man of a reserve force falls within this paragraph if--
(a) he has remained a member of that force without interruption since that time; and
(b) he has not extended his service in, or become an officer of, that force since that time.
3. An officer or man who becomes a member of a reserve force on or after the appointed day, on transfer to the reserve from the regular services, falls within this paragraph if--
(a) he joined the regular services before the appointed day and did not re-enlist, re-engage or extend his service, or become an officer, in the regular services on or after that day;
(b) he has remained a member of the reserve force concerned without interruption since being transferred from the regular services; and
(c) he has not extended his service in, or become an officer of, that force since being so transferred.
4.--(1) A person who is a transitional member of a reserve force by virtue of paragraph 2 or 3 may elect to cease being a transitional member.
(2) An officer or man serving in the regular services who--
(a) joined those services before the appointed day; and
(b) has not re-enlisted, re-engaged or extended his service, or become an officer, on or after that day,
may elect not to be a transitional member on his transfer to the reserve.
(3) An election under this paragraph is irrevocable and must be made in the prescribed manner.
(4) A person who has made an election under this paragraph shall cease to be or, as the case may be, shall not become a transitional member of the reserve force concerned.
5.--(1) In this Part of this Schedule "man", in relation to the regular services, means a person of or below the rank or rate of warrant officer.
(2) A person in permanent service on recall (whether under the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, in the case of an officer, otherwise than under this Act) shall not be regarded for the purposes of this Part of this Schedule as serving in the regular services.
Part II
Application of Act to members of the transitional class

6. The provisions of this Act (other than section (Application of Act to persons currently serving in the reserve forces or regular services) and this Schedule) apply in relation to members of the transitional class in accordance with this Part of this Schedule.
7.--(1) Any reference in this Act to a reserve force, to two or more of the reserve forces or to all the reserve forces shall, unless the context otherwise requires, be construed as a reference to the whole of the force, or of each force, concerned, including any transitional members.
(2) Any reference in this Act to members, officers or men of a reserve force includes, unless the context otherwise requires, a reference to members, officers or men who are transitional members.
(3) This paragraph has effect subject to the exceptions and modifications in the following provisions of this Part of this Schedule.
8.--(1) In the application of section 17(1) to a transitional man, the reference to permanent service includes a reference to permanent service under the Reserve Forces Act 1980.
(2) Section 17(2), (3) and (4) do not apply to transitional men.
9.--(1) In the application of sections 18, 20 and 21 to a transitional man, the reference to permanent service includes a reference to permanent service under the Reserve Forces Act 1980.

27 Feb 1996 : Column 1402


(2) In the application of section 21 to a transitional man of the Royal Fleet Reserve, the reference to training and other duties includes a reference to training or other duties in pursuance of any provision of the Reserve Forces Act 1980.
10. Section 22 does not apply to transitional members of a reserve land, air or marine force.
11. In the application of section 24 to a transitional member who has entered into a full-time service commitment--
(a) for the reference in subsection (7) to permanent service under Part VI there shall be substituted a reference to permanent service on call out under the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, as the case may be, under any other call-out obligations of an officer; and
(b) for the reference in subsection (8) to training under section 22 there shall (except in the case of a member of a reserve naval force) be substituted a reference to training required under the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, as the case may be, under any other training obligations of an officer.
12.--(1) Transitional members may (subject to the provisions of this Act) enter into a special agreement or an employee agreement; and Parts IV and V apply accordingly.
(2) Transitional members of a reserve force do not lose their status as transitional members by virtue of either becoming special members of the force or (where they continue as ordinary members under section 42) ceasing to be special members of the force.
13. In the application of section 31(1) to a special agreement entered into by a transitional member, for the reference in paragraph (d) to permanent service under Part VI there shall be substituted a reference to permanent service under the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, as the case may be, under any other call-out obligations of an officer.
14. In the application of section 34(5) to transitional members, the reference in paragraph (b) to section 57(11) shall be omitted.
15. In the application of section 40(5) to a transitional special member--
(a) for the reference to section 22 there shall (except in the case of a member of a reserve naval force) be substituted a reference to the corresponding provision of the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, as the case may be, of any other training obligations of an officer;
(b) for the reference to Part VI there shall be substituted a reference to the corresponding provisions of the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, as the case may be, of any other call-out obligations of an officer.
16. An order may be made under section 41(6) suspending the operation of section 41(1)(c) in relation to transitional special members, notwithstanding that Part VI does not apply to transitional members.
17. In the application of section 45(5) to transitional members, the reference in paragraph (b) to section 57(11) shall be omitted.
18. Part VI does not apply to transitional members.
19. Regulations under section 77, 82 or 83 may make provision, in relation to transitional members liable to be called out under--
(a) the Reserve Forces Act 1980, or
(b) any other call-out obligations of officers,
corresponding to the provision which may be made in regulations under that section in relation to members of the reserve forces liable to be called out under Part VI of this Act.
20. In the application of section 95(1) to a transitional member--
(a) the reference to any provision of this Act includes a reference to any provision of the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, as the case may be, of any other call-out obligations of an officer; and
(b) for the reference in paragraph (a) to section 58(3)(c) there shall be substituted a reference to the corresponding provision of that Act or those obligations.

27 Feb 1996 : Column 1403


21. In the application of section 96(2) to a transitional member, for the reference to section 22 there shall (except in the case of a member of a reserve naval force) be substituted a reference to the corresponding provision of the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, as the case may be, of any other training obligations of an officer.
22. In the application of section 101(2) to transitional members--
(a) the reference in paragraph (a) to any provision of this Act includes a reference to the corresponding provision of the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, as the case may be, of any other call-out obligations of an officer;
(b) the reference in paragraph (d) to training includes (except in the case of members of a reserve naval force) a reference to the corresponding training required under the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, as the case may be, under any other training obligations of an officer.
23. In the application of section 122(1) to a transitional man, the reference to permanent service includes a reference to permanent service under the Reserve Forces Act 1980.
24. In the application of section 124 to a transitional member, the reference to permanent service includes a reference to permanent service under the Reserve Forces Act 1980 or, as the case may be, under any other call-out obligations of an officer.").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Schedule 9 [Minor and consequential amendments]:


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