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Lord Clinton-Davis: My Lords, I am sure that what the Minister has done is in the best interests of everyone. However, is there any real difference between the provisions of Amendment No. 138 and the present law? Would it not be a criminal offence to do all those things anyway? My criminal law is a little rusty these days but I wonder whether those situations are not met by the criminal law in any event.

Lord Fraser of Carmyllie: My Lords, it may indeed be something of a belt and braces job, with the common law of both England and Scotland covering such activity. I shall look at the matter. I am never keen to introduce to the statute book statutory offences when the common law is more than capable of handling them. I shall look at the matter again and, if the provision is unnecessary, I shall consider its deletion.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter: My Lords, will my noble friend amplify that answer a little? It appears that what is forbidden in Amendment No. 138 is already forbidden under the criminal law. I do not follow what improvement or change is being effected by the Bill.

Lord Fraser of Carmyllie: My Lords, as I have indicated, that may well be the case. The only particular feature is that it allows for a penalty of a fine not exceeding level 4. Clearly, the common law contains no such provision. From my recollection as a prosecutor, intent to deceive and impersonation matters are covered by the common law. But against the background which I have indicated to the noble Lord, we shall look again at that matter.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Fraser of Carmyllie moved Amendment No. 69:


Page 32, line 43, at end insert ("in a consumer's premises").

The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, this is a technical amendment. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Schedule 3 [Other amendments of Part I of 1986 Act]:

Lord Fraser of Carmyllie moved Amendments Nos. 70 to 74:


Page 34, line 37, leave out ("7(11) above, section 10(8)") and insert ("10(8) or (11)").
Page 36, line 50, leave out ("(c)") and insert ("(b)").
Page 37, line 21, at end insert ("and the extent to which it is reasonable to expect that the transporter will recover that expense from elsewhere").
Page 37, line 21, at end insert—
("( ) If and to the extent that regulations made by the Director with the consent of the Secretary of State so provide, subsection (10) above shall have effect as if—
(a) the reference in paragraph (d) to the laying of a new main, the enlarging of an existing main or the construction or enlarging of any other works required for the conveyance of gas included a reference to a new main which had previously been laid, an existing main which had previously been enlarged or any other works required for the conveyance of gas which had previously been constructed or enlarged;

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(b) the reference to the expense to be incurred in laying or enlarging the main or constructing or enlarging the other works included a reference to the expense which had been so incurred; and
(c) the reference to the extent to which it is reasonable to expect that the transporter will recover that expense from elsewhere included a reference to the extent to which the transporter had been able so to recover that expense.").
Page 37, line 33, leave out ("and a declaration under this") and insert—
("(13) A public gas transporter shall make a declaration under subsection (12) above in respect of each pipe falling within that subsection which is fit for the purpose of being a relevant main; and a declaration under that").

The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, these are technical amendments. I beg to move.

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Lord Fraser of Carmyllie moved Amendments Nos. 75 to 98:


Page 38, line 10, at beginning insert ("Except in prescribed cases,").
Page 38, line 16, after ("section") insert (", or so determined by another public gas transporter and adopted by the transporter in accordance with such regulations").
Page 38, line 19, leave out ("the declared calorific value") and insert ("declared calorific values").
Page 38, line 24, at end insert ("—
(a)")
Page 38, line 27, leave out ("and, if the Director so determines, containing") and insert ("or
(b) if regulations under this section so provide, the combustion of one kilogram of the gas,
containing in either case, if the Director so determines,").
Page 38, line 31, after ("means") insert ("a").
Page 38, line 33, at end insert (", or so declared by another public gas transporter and adopted by the transporter in accordance with such regulations").
Page 38, line 33, at end insert—
("( ) Regulations under this section may make provision as to the manner in which prescribed information with respect to the making of calculations in accordance with the regulations is to be made available to other licence holders and to the public.").
Page 38, line 37, leave out from ("transporters") to second ("at") in line 39 and insert ("to be made on the basis of samples of gas taken at such places or premises, at such times and in such manner as the Director may direct;
( ) for requiring such determinations to be made at such places or premises,").
Page 38, line 40, at end insert—
("( ) as to the manner in which the results of such determinations are to be made available to other licence holders and to the public;").
Page 38, line 47, leave out from ("them") to end of line 5 on page 39 and insert ("and
( ) for requiring the results of such tests to be notified to the Director or to any person appointed under section 13(1) below, and to be made available to other licence holders and to the public.").
Page 39, leave out lines 8 to 22 and insert—
("(a) for requiring declarations of calorific values of gas conveyed by public gas transporters to be made at such times and in such manner as the Director may direct;
(b) as to the times when such declarations are to take effect, and as to the manner in which the calorific values declared are to be made available to other licence holders and to the public;
(c) for imposing requirements on public gas transporters as to the correlation between—

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(i) the calorific values of the gas conveyed by them for any period; and
(ii) the calorific values declared by them for that period;
(d) for requiring public gas transporters to carry out tests of gas for the purpose of ascertaining whether they are complying with the requirements of regulations made by virtue of paragraph (c) above;
(e) for requiring such tests to be carried out at such places or premises, at such times and in such manner as the Director may direct; and
(f) for requiring the results of such tests to be notified to the Director or to any person appointed under section 13(1) below, and to be made available to other licence holders and to the public.").
Page 39, line 28, at end insert ("or section 13 below").
Page 39, line 32, leave out ("required") and insert ("compelled").
Page 39, line 43, leave out ("under") and insert ("made by virtue of subsection (3)(b) of").
Page 39, line 46, leave out ("in the case of which") and insert ("conveyed by public gas transporters where").
Page 39, line 49, leave out ("gas is of or above the declared calorific value") and insert ("transporters are complying with the requirements of regulations made by virtue of subsection (4)(c) of that section").
Page 39, line 52, leave out ("that section or regulations made under it") and insert (", or under regulations made under, this section or that section").
Page 40, line 5, after ("places") insert ("or premises").
Page 40, line 6, leave out ("and").
Page 40, line 10, at end insert—
("(c) for requiring samples of gas to be taken by public gas transporters at such places or premises, at such times and in such manner as the Director may direct; and
(d) for requiring samples of gas so taken to be provided by public gas transporters, for the purpose of carrying out such tests, at such places or premises, at such times and in such manner as the Director may direct.").
Page 40, line 15, leave out ("for") and insert ("as to").
Page 40, line 21, at end insert (" or section 12 above").
Page 40, line 36, leave out from ("functions") to the end of line 38 and insert ("under section 12 above or this section").

The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, these are technical amendments. I beg to move.

On Question, amendments agreed to.


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