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Page 99, line 32, leave out from ("interpretation)") to end of line 35 and insert:
("(a) the definition of "children's panel" and of "children's hearing" shall cease to have effect;
(b) the definition of "compulsory measures of care" shall cease to have effect;
(c) in the definition of "establishment" after the word "Act," insert "or of Part II of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995,";
(d) the definition of "guardian" shall cease to have effect;
(e) for the definition of "parent" substitute—
""parent" means either parent or both parents, except that where the child was born out of wedlock and the parents have not subsequently married each other it means the natural mother but not the natural father;";
(f) the definition of "place of safety" shall cease to have effect;
(g) in the definition of "prescribed"—
(i) in paragraph (a), for the words "sections 3 and 36" substitute "section 3"; and
(ii) paragraph (b) shall cease to have effect;
(h) in the definition of "residential establishment", after the word "Act" insert "or of Part II of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995";
(i) the definition of "school age" shall cease to have effect; and
(j) in the definition of "supervision requirement", for the words "section 44(1) of this Act" substitute "section 67(1) of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995".

5 Jul 1995 : Column 1230

The noble Earl said: My Lords, this amendment amends the interpretation section of the 1968 Act in light of changes in the Bill. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

[Amendment No. 222 not moved.]

The Earl of Lindsay moved Amendments Nos. 223 to 225:


Page 99, line 37, after ("Wales)") insert:
("—
(a) in subsection (1),").
Page 99, line 37, after ("(1A)"") insert (", "section 58" and "Part V"").
Page 99, line 38, at end insert ("; and
(b) subsections (2) and (3) shall cease to have effect.
( ) In Schedule 2 (general adaptations of Part IV of Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act 1937), for paragraph 1 substitute—
"1. Any reference to a child or to a young person shall be construed as a reference to a child as defined in section 90(2) (b) of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995.".").

The noble Earl said: My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall move Amendments Nos. 223 to 225 en bloc. In doing so, I shall speak also to Amendments Nos. 230, 238, 239 and 240, which are in respect of Schedules 3 and 4. They make a number of relevant consequential changes in respect of the extension of provisions of the 1968 Act to England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Channel Islands. I beg to move.

On Question, amendments agreed to.

Lord Fraser of Carmyllie moved Amendment No. 226:


Page 100, line 10, at beginning insert:
(—(1) The Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1971 shall be amended in accordance with this paragraph.
(2) In section 32(1) (power of Court of Session to regulate civil procedure in the sheriff court), after paragraph (i) insert—
"(j) permitting a person who is not an advocate or solicitor and is not represented by an advocate or solicitor to transmit, whether orally or in writing, the views of a child to the sheriff for the purposes of any enactment which makes provision (however expressed) for the sheriff to have regard to those views.
(3)").

The noble and learned Lord said: My Lords, in moving Amendment No. 226, I shall speak also to Amendments Nos. 227 and 235.

The procedure for the court to take the views of the child concerned in the proceedings under Part I of this Bill has been discussed at a previous stage of the Bill. In another place amendments were proposed to set out such a mechanism on the face of the Bill. We thought it better that it should be left to the rules of court which would be more flexible and be able to take into account the many different types of case that may arise.

We have looked at the Bill carefully to ensure that the courts have all the necessary powers. Again, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, for his helpful suggestion which will allow the courts to avoid significant practical difficulties. It would be very clumsy if, after the court had appointed a person—for example, a curator ad litem—to obtain the views of the child, the person could not report direct to the court but had to be represented by a solicitor or advocate. The amendment makes clear that any person appointed to convey the views of the child to

5 Jul 1995 : Column 1231

the court can do so in person, even if he is not an advocate or solicitor. It is an amendment against interest. I beg to move.

Lord Macaulay of Bragar: My Lords, perhaps I may make a passing comment on Amendments Nos. 226 and 235. When we were discussing the question of the people now known as solicitor advocates, there were rules set out regarding the training and the code of conduct which they had to undergo before they were allowed to represent anyone in the court.

As the amendment stands, it means that anyone—and I mean anyone—can come in and purport to represent the views of the child. It seems to me, in the way it is drafted, that a granny, an uncle or anybody, could come in and express the views of the child. When we are dealing in this area, it is important that the views of the child are given to the court on some sort of structured basis. I wonder whether Amendments Nos. 226 and 235 are perhaps rather widely framed and whether there should be some inbuilt protection for the child as to who can represent the child.

I know that this is a difficult area but it seems to be a bit too wide in that anyone can come in and purport to represent the views of the child. I should like to hear what the Minister says in that regard.

Lord Fraser of Carmyllie: My Lords, if what the noble Lord understood was what the clause in fact does, I would readily recognise his anxieties. We are looking at a circumstance where the court will have appointed someone to determine the views of the child. In those circumstances, as the noble Lord can probably recall from his own experience in court, it would be desirable for that person to tell the court directly what those views are rather than having to convey them to the court through the medium of a solicitor or advocate.

That is all that the amendment seeks to achieve. It was a point that the Lord President of the Court of Session indicated would be a change of practical value. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Macaulay, is reassured that the amendment is not as wide as he thought.

Lord Macaulay of Bragar: My Lords, perhaps I may say that my contribution was not a special pleading on behalf of advocates and solicitors.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

Lord Fraser of Carmyllie moved Amendment No. 227:


Page 100, line 10, leave out ("of the Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1971").

On Question, amendment agreed to.

The Earl of Lindsay moved Amendments Nos. 228 and 229:


Page 102, line 26, leave out from ("(3),") to ("; and") in line 28 and insert ("the words from "and the child" to the end shall cease to have effect").
Page 102, leave out lines 29 to 34 and insert:
("(b) subsection (4) shall cease to have effect.").

The noble Earl said: My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall move Amendments Nos. 228 and 229 en bloc. They were spoken to with Amendment No. 92. I beg to move.

5 Jul 1995 : Column 1232

On Question, amendments agreed to.

[Amendment No. 230 not moved.]

The Earl of Lindsay moved Amendment No. 231:


Page 106, line 41, leave out from ("1983,") to ("shall") in line 43 and insert ("paragraphs 4 to 6 and 8 (which amend provisions of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 repealed by this Act)").

The noble Earl said: My Lords, in moving Amendment No. 231, I shall speak also to Amendment No. 248. They are consequential or technical amendments which previously remove from the Health and Social Services and Social Security Adjudication Act 1983 references to provisions of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 which have been removed by the Bill. I beg to move.

On Question, amendment agreed to.

The Earl of Lindsay moved Amendments Nos. 232 and 233:


Page 107, line 2, at beginning insert:
("—(1) The Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 shall be amended in accordance with this paragraph.
(2) In section 10(1) (application of provisions relating to certain patients suffering from mental disorder)—
(a) in paragraph (a), sub-paragraph (i), and the word "or" immediately following that sub-paragraph, shall cease to have effect; and
(b) after paragraph (a) insert—
"(aa) a child or young person in relation to whom parental rights and responsibilities have been transferred to a local authority by virtue of section 83(1) of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995;".
(3) In section 54 (local authority to be deemed nearest relative of certain children and young persons), for paragraph (a) substitute—
"(a) the parental rights and responsibilities in relation to a patient who is a child or young person have been transferred to a local authority by virtue of section 83(1) of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995;".
(4)").
Page 107, line 2, leave out ("of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984").

The noble Earl said: My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall move Amendments Nos. 232 and 233 en bloc. They are consequential amendments necessary because of the repeal of Sections 16 and 17 of the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 and to provide for a new reference in the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 drawing on Clause 83 of the Bill which provides a "parental responsibilities order". I beg to move.

On Question, amendments agreed to.


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