Joint Committee on House of Lords Reform First Report


PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE RELATING TO THE REPORT

SESSION 2001-02

DIE MARTIS, 9º JULII 2002

Present:
Lord Archer of Sandwell

Viscount Bledisloe

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lord Carter

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

Lord Goodhart

Lord Howe of Aberavon

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay

Baroness O'Cathain

The Earl of Selborne

Lord Weatherill

Mr James Arbuthnot

Mr Chris Bryant

Mr Kenneth Clarke

Dr Jack Cunningham

Mr William Hague

Mr Stephen McCabe

Joyce Quin

Mr Terry Rooney

Mr Clive Soley

Mr Paul Stinchcombe

Mr Paul Tyler

The Orders of Reference are read.

It is moved that the Rt Hon. Jack Cunningham do take the Chair (the Earl of Selborne).

The same is agreed to.

The Joint Committee deliberate.

Ordered, That the Joint Committee be adjourned to Tuesday 16 July at half-past Ten o'clock.

DIE MARTIS, 16º JULII 2002

Present:

Lord Archer of Sandwell

Viscount Bledisloe

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lord Carter

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

Lord Goodhart

Lord Howe of Aberavon

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay

The Earl of Selborne

Lord Weatherill

Janet Anderson

Mr James Arbuthnot

Mr Chris Bryant

Mr Kenneth Clarke

Mr William Hague

Joyce Quin

Mr Terry Rooney

Mr Clive Soley

Mr Paul Stinchcombe

Mr Paul Tyler

Dr Jack Cunningham, in the Chair.

The Order of Adjournment is read.

The Proceedings of Tuesday 9 July are read.

A draft Special Report is proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 7 read and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Special Report of the Joint Committee to each House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House of Commons and that the Lord Howe of Aberavon make the Report to the House of Lords.

Ordered, That such Reports be laid upon the Table of each House.

Ordered, That the Joint Committee be adjourned till Tuesday 17 September at half-past Ten o'clock.

DIE MARTIS, 17º SEPTEMBRIS 2002

Present:

Lord Archer of Sandwell

Viscount Bledisloe

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lord Carter

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

Lord Goodhart

Lord Howe of Aberavon

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay

Baroness O'Cathain

The Earl of Selborne

Janet Anderson

Mr James Arbuthnot

Mr Chris Bryant

Mr Kenneth Clarke

Mr William Hague

Mr Stephen McCabe

Joyce Quin

Mr Clive Soley

Mr Paul Stinchcombe

In the absence of the Chairman it is moved that Lord Howe of Aberavon do take the Chair (Kenneth Clarke).

The Order of Adjournment is read.

The Proceedings of 16 July are read.

The Joint Committee deliberate.

Ordered, That the Joint Committee be adjourned to Tuesday 8 October at half-past Ten o'clock.

DIE MARTIS, 8º OCTOBRIS 2002

Present:

Lord Archer of Sandwell

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lord Carter

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

Lord Goodhart

Lord Howe of Aberavon

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay

Baroness O'Cathain

The Earl of Selborne

Lord Weatherill

Mr James Arbuthnot

Mr William Hague

Joyce Quin

Mr Clive Soley

Mr Paul Stinchcombe

Mr Paul Tyler

Dr Jack Cunningham, in the Chair.

The Order of Adjournment is read.

The proceedings of 17 September are read.

The Joint Committee deliberate.

Ordered, That the Joint Committee be adjourned till Tuesday 15 October at half-past Ten o'clock.

DIE MARTIS, 15º OCTOBRIS 2002

Present:

Lord Archer of Sandwell

Viscount Bledisloe

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lord Carter

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

Lord Goodhart

Lord Howe of Aberavon

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay

Baroness O'Cathain

The Earl of Selborne

Lord Weatherill

Mr James Arbuthnot

Mr Chris Bryant

Mr Kenneth Clarke

Mr William Hague

Joyce Quin

Mr Terry Rooney

Mr Clive Soley

Mr Paul Tyler

Dr Jack Cunningham, in the Chair.

The Order of Adjournment is read.

The proceedings of 8 October are read.

The Joint Committee deliberate.

Ordered, That the Joint Committee be adjourned till Tuesday 29 October at Ten o'clock.

DIE MARTIS, 29º OCTOBRIS 2002

Present:

Lord Archer of Sandwell

Viscount Bledisloe

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lord Carter

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

Lord Goodhart

Lord Howe of Aberavon

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay

Baroness O'Cathain

The Earl of Selborne

Lord Weatherill

Janet Anderson

Mr James Arbuthnot

Mr Chris Bryant

Mr Kenneth Clarke

Mr William Hague

Mr Stephen McCabe

Joyce Quin

Mr Terry Rooney

Mr Clive Soley

Mr Paul Tyler

Dr Jack Cunningham, in the Chair.

The Order of Adjournment is read.

The proceedings of 15 October are read.

The Joint Committee deliberate.

Ordered, That the Joint Committee be adjourned sine die.

SESSION 2002-03

DIE MARTIS, 3º DECEMBRIS 2002

Present:

Viscount Bledisloe

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lord Carter

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

Lord Howe of Aberavon

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay

Baroness O'Cathain

The Earl of Selborne

Lord Weatherill

Janet Anderson

Mr James Arbuthnot

Mr Chris Bryant

Dr Jack Cunningham

Mr Stephen McCabe

Joyce Quin

Mr Terry Rooney

Mr Clive Soley

Mr Paul Tyler

The Orders of Reference are read.

It is moved that the Rt Hon. Jack Cunningham do take the Chair (Lord Howe of Aberavon).

The same is agreed to.

The Joint Committee deliberate.

Ordered, That the Joint Committee be adjourned to Monday 9 December at Four o'clock.

DIE LUNAE, 9º DECEMBRIS 2002

Present:

Lord Archer of Sandwell

Viscount Bledisloe

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lord Carter

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

Lord Goodhart

Lord Howe of Aberavon

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay

Baroness O'Cathain

The Earl of Selborne

Lord Weatherill

Mr Chris Bryant

Mr Kenneth Clarke

Mr William Hague

Mr Stephen McCabe

Joyce Quin

Mr Terry Rooney

Mr Clive Soley

Mr Paul Stinchcombe

Mr Paul Tyler

Dr Jack Cunningham, in the Chair.

The Order of Adjournment is read.

The Proceedings of Tuesday 3 December are read.

A draft Report is proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 47 were read and agreed to with amendments.

Paragraph 48 was read.

It was moved by Joyce Quin to leave out "A balance has to be struck, and our view is that a tenure for all members of some twelve years is about right." and insert "A balance has to be struck, and our view is that a tenure for all members (elected and appointed) of 8 years, renewable once, is appropriate."

Which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents  7Not-Contents  14
Mr Chris Bryant

Mr Kenneth Clarke

Lord Goodhart

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay

Joyce Quin

Mr Clive Soley

Mr Paul Tyler

Lord Archer of Sandwell

Viscount Bledisloe

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lord Carter

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen

Mr William Hague

Lord Howe of Aberavon

Mr Stephen McCabe

Baroness O'Cathain

Mr Terry Rooney

The Earl of Selborne

Mr Paul Stinchcombe

Lord Weatherill

The amendment was disagreed to.

Paragraph 48 was agreed to.

Paragraphs 49 to 68 were read and agreed to with amendments.

Paragraph 69 was read.

It was moved by Mr Paul Tyler to leave out "A first-past-the-post system would seem to us to be likely to lead to replication of the Commons, particularly if elections were held at the same time. It would not be possible to ensure that there was sufficient balance between parties in the second chamber. We are aware of the difficulties of various methods of indirect election in a country like ours where there is no federal structure on which to base it. Nevertheless some form of indirect election might possibly be a better way of achieving the aims of representativeness and regional balance in a second chamber."

Which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents  8Not-Contents  10
Mr Chris Bryant

Mr Kenneth Clarke

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean

Lord Goodhart

Mr William Hague

Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay

Joyce Quin

Mr Paul Tyler

Lord Archer of Sandwell

Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe

Lord Carter

Lord Howe of Aberavon

Mr Stephen McCabe

Baroness O'Cathain

Mr Terry Rooney

The Earl of Selborne

Mr Clive Soley

Mr Paul Stinchcombe

The amendment was disagreed to.

Paragraph 69 was agreed to.

The remaining paragraphs were read and agreed to with amendments.

The summary, summary of conclusions and recommendations, and appendices were agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report as amended be the First Report of the Joint Committee to each House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House of Commons and that the Lord Howe of Aberavon do make the Report to the House of Lords.

Ordered, That such Reports be laid upon the Table of each House.

Ordered, That the Joint Committee be adjourned to a date and time to be fixed by the Chairman.



 
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Prepared 11 December 2002