Joint Committee on the Draft Mental Incapacity Bill First Report


Formal minutes

Extract from House of Lords Minute of 12 June 2003

Mental Incapacity—It was moved by the Lord Privy Seal (Lord Williams of Mostyn) that it is expedient that a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons be appointed to consider and report on any draft Mental Incapacity Bill presented to both Houses by a Minister of the Crown, and that the Committee should report on the draft Bill by the end of October 2003; the motion was agreed to and a message was ordered to be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

Extract from Votes and proceedings of the House of Commons 10 July 2003

Draft Mental Incapacity Bill (Joint Committee),-Ordered, That the Lords Message of 13th June relating to a Joint Committee of both Houses to consider and report on any draft Mental Incapacity Bill presented to both Houses by a Minister of the Crown be now considered.

    That this House concurs with the Lords that it is expedient that a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons be appointed to consider and report on any draft Mental Incapacity Bill presented to both Houses by a Minister of the Crown, and proposes that the Committee should report on the draft Bill by the end of November 2003.

    That a Select Committee of eight honourable Members be appointed to join with the Committee appointed by the Lords to consider any draft Mental Incapacity Bill.

    That the Committee shall have power-

    (i)to send for persons, papers and records;

    (ii) to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House;

    (iii) to report from time to time;

    (iv) to appoint specialist advisers;

    (v) to adjourn from place to place within the United Kingdom; and

    That Mr John Bercow, Mrs Angela Browning, Mr Paul Burstow, Jim Dowd, Stephen Hesford, Mrs Joan Humble, Huw Irranca-Davies and Laura Moffatt be members of the Committee-(Charlotte Atkins.)

    Message to the Lords to acquaint them therewith.

Extract from House of Lords Minute of 11 July 2003

Mental Incapacity—It was moved by the Chairman of Committees that the Commons message of yesterday be now considered, and that a Committee of eight Lords be appointed to join with the Committee appointed by the Commons, to consider and report on any draft Mental Incapacity Bill presented to both Houses by a Minister of the Crown;

That, as proposed by the Committee of Selection, the Lords following be named of the Committee:

B. Barker

L. Carter.

B. Fookes

B. Knight of Collingtre
B. McIntosh of Hudnall

L. Pearson of Rannoch

L. Rix

B. Wilkins;

That the Committee have power to agree with the Commons in the appointment of a Chairman;

That the Committee have leave to report from time to time;

That the Committee have power to appoint specialist advisers;

That the Committee have power to adjourn from place to place within the United Kingdom;

That the reports of the Committee from time to time shall be printed, notwithstanding any adjournment of the House;

That the Committee do report on the draft Bill by the end of November 2003;

And that the Committee do meet with the Committee appointed by the Commons on Tuesday 15th July at half-past three o'clock in Committee Room 5;

the motion was agreed to; and a message was ordered to be sent to the Commons to acquaint them therewith.

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Tuesday 15 July 2003

Members present:
Baroness Barker

Mrs Angela Browning

Lord Carter

Jim Dowd

Stephen Hesford
Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Rix

Members disclosed their interests relating to the draft Bill, pursuant to the resolutions of the House of Commons 13th July 1992 and the House of Lords 2nd July 2001:

Baroness Barker declared an interest as a full time employee of Age Concern England; occasional joint work (unpaid) with Alzheimer's Disease Society and other voluntary organisations.

Lord Rix declared an interest as President of Royal Mencap Society; President of the Friends of Normansfield; Chairman of Libertas (heritage tours for people with a learning disability coupled with sensory and/or physical disabilities); Chairman of Mencap City Foundation (financial grants for projects concerned with learning disability). All the foregoing offices are honorary with no remuneration.

Lord Carter declared an interest as trusteeships with Carousel (access to the arts for learning-disabled people); Dame Vera Lynn Trust for Children with cerebral palsy; The Shaw Trust (employment of disabled people); Plunkett Foundation; Village Retail Services Association; The Andrew Carter Trust (a small family charity set up in the memory of a son which makes grants to disabled people). He is also declared that he is named on a Protection Order as the "best friend" for a lady with Alzheimer's disease - she has no close relatives.

Baroness Wilkins declared an interest (in writing) as Vice-Chair of HAFAD (Hammersmith and Fulham Action on Disability, and life interest in income from a house in North London.

Lord Carter was called to the Chair by acclamation.

The Joint Committee deliberated.

Ordered, That the public be admitted during the examination of witnesses unless the Committee otherwise orders.—(The Chairman.)

Ordered, That the uncorrected transcripts of oral evidence given, unless the Committee otherwise orders, be published on the Internet.—(The Chairman.)

The Joint Committee further deliberated.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 9 September at half past Three o' clock.

TUESDAY 9 SEPTEMBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair.
Baroness Barker

Mrs Angela Browning

Mr John Bercow

Mr Paul Burstow

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Stephen Hesford

Mrs Joan Humble
Huw Irranaca-Davies

Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Lord Rix

The Joint Committee deliberated.

The following declaration of relevant interests were made:

Lord Pearson of Rannoch declared an interest as Honorary President of RESCARE (The National Society for People with a mental handicap in residential and family care, and father of a 22 year old daughter with Down Syndrome.

Mrs Angela Browning declared an interest as, special counsellor National Autistic Society; member of Wessex Autistic Society and patron of Domino Appeal; patron of Tree House School for autism in London; member resources for autism; national vice president Alzheimer's Disease Society; member of all party mental health group; member of All Party Autism group all the above are non-remunerated. Also carer for adult dependant with autism.

Mrs Joan Humble declared an interest as Chair of All Party Social Services Group and President of Blackpool Advocacy, an organisation providing advocacy services in the local community for a range of individuals.

The Joint Committee deliberated.

Ordered, That Professor Anthony Holland and Ms Penny Letts be appointed as Specialist Advisers to assist the Committee in its inquiry into the Draft Mental Incapacity Bill.- (The Chairman)

The Joint Committee further deliberated.

[Adjourned till tomorrow at half past Three o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 10 SEPTEMBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair.

Baroness Barker

Mrs Angela Browning

Mr John Bercow

Mr Paul Burstow

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Stephen Hesford

Mrs Joan Humble
Huw Irranaca-Davies

Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Lord Rix

The Joint Committee deliberated.

Stephen Hesford declared an interest as vice-chair of All Party Parliamentary Group on Autism; patron of Crossroads-Wirral Caring for Carers.

Draft Mental Incapacity Bill: Mr Adrian Ward, Convenor; Mr David McClements, Member Mental Health and Disability Committee of the Law Society of Scotland; Ms Elizabeth Craigmyle, Principal Solicitor for ENABLE and member of the Mental Health and Disability Commission, Law Society of Scotland, were examined.

Professor Tom McMillan, Chair in Clinical Neuropsychology, Glasgow University; Mr Mark Ramm, Director of Clinical Forensic Psychology, Orchard Clinic, Edinburgh; Dr Keith Bowden, Consultant Clinical Psychologist, Forth Valley Primary Care NHS Trust; Dr Donald Lyons, Consultant in Psychiatry of Old Age and Medical Adviser for Elderly Services for Greater Glasgow Primary Care NHS Trust, were examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 16 September at half past Three o' clock.

TUESDAY 16 SEPTEMBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair.
Baroness Barker

Mr Paul Burstow

Jim Dowd

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Mrs Joan Humble

Huw Irranaca-Davies
Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Lord Rix

The Joint Committee deliberated.

Mr Paul Burstow declared an interest as Co-Chair, All Party Parliamentary Group on Ageing and Older People; Vice Chair All Party Group on Disability and Front Bench Spokesperson, Liberal Democrats, Older People.

Draft Mental Incapacity Bill: Mr Clive Evers, Alzheimer's Society, Mr Simon Foster, Mind, Mr Roger Goss, Patient Concern, Dr Andrew McCulloch, Mental Health Foundation, Ms Pauline Thompson, Age Concern and Ms Kathryn Willmington, Help the Aged, were examined.

[Adjourned till tomorrow at half past Three o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 17 SEPTEMBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair

Baroness Barker

Mr John Bercow

Mr Paul Burstow

Jim Dowd

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Stephen Hesford
Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Lord Rix

The Joint Committee deliberated.

Draft Mental Incapacity Bill: Mr Steve Broach, National Autistic Society, Ms Caroline Clipson, Scope, Mr Richard Kramer, Turning Point and Ms Hazel Morgan, Foundation for People with Learning Disabilities, were examined.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 8 October at half past Three o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 8 OCTOBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair

Mrs Angela Browning

Mr Paul Burstow

Jim Dowd

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Stephen Hesford

Mrs Joan Humble
Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Lord Rix

The Joint Committee deliberated.

Draft Mental Incapacity Bill: Dr Michael Wilks and Dr Vivienne Nathanson, British Medical Association, Medical Ethics Committee, were examined.

Dr Karen Elhert, Dr Camilla Herbert, Professor Glynis Murphy, Dr Peter Kinderman and Dr Catherine Dooley, British Psychological Society and Dr Tony Zigmond, Royal College of Psychiatrists, were examined.

[Adjourned till tomorrow at half past Three o'clock.

THURDSAY 9 OCTOBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair.

Mrs Angela Browning

Mr Paul Burstow

Jim Dowd

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Mrs Joan Humble
Huw Irranaca-Davies

Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Lord Rix

The Joint Committee deliberated.

The Draft Mental Incapacity Bill: Professor the Baroness Finlay of Llandaff, was examined.

Archbishop Peter Smith, Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales and Dr Helen Watt of the Linacre Centre for Healthcare Ethics; Dr Philip Howard and Dr Adrian Treloar, Guild of Catholic Doctors, Mr James Bogle, Catholic Union; Dr Gregory Gardener and Dr Gillian Craig, Medical Ethics Alliance; The Right Reverend and Right Honourable the Lord Habgood and Lay Canon Claire Foster, Church of England Archbishops' Council, were examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 14 October at half past Three o'clock.

TUESDAY 14 OCTOBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair

Baroness Barker

Mrs Angela Browning

Mr Paul Burstow

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Stephen Hesford

Mrs Joan Humble
Huw Irranaca-Davies

Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Lord Rix

Baroness Wilkins

The Joint Committee deliberated.

Draft Mental Incapacity Bill: Mr John Dixon and Mr Graham Collingridge, Association of Directors of Social Services, were examined.

Master Denzil Lush, Court of Protection, was examined.

Professor John Williams, University of Wales (Aberystwyth), was examined.

[Adjourned till tomorrow at half past Three o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 15 OCTOBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair.

Baroness Barker

Mr John Bercow

Mrs Angela Browning

Jim Dowd

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Stephen Hesford

Mrs Joan Humble
Huw Irranaca-Davies

Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Rix

Baroness Wilkins

The Joint Committee deliberated.

Draft Mental Incapacity Bill: Ms Vicki Chapman, Mr Niall Baker, Mr Luke Clements and Mr Peter Raymond for the Law Society of England and Wales, were examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 21 October at half past Three o'clock.

TUESDAY 21 OCTOBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair

Baroness Barker

Mr John Bercow

Mrs Angela Browning

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Stephen Hesford

Mrs Joan Humble

Huw Irranaca-Davies
Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Lord Rix

Baroness Wilkins

The Joint Committee deliberated.

Draft Mental Incapacity Bill: Ms Simone Aspis and Mr Richard Downs, Changing Perspectives; Mr Andrew Lee and Mr Nico Mac Given, People First; Dr Jean Collins and Mr Mark Brookes, Values into Action, were examined.

Draft Mental Incapacity Bill: Dr Maurice Brook, Mrs Mary Pearson and Mr David Sugden, RESCARE; Mr James Allen, Care UK and Mr Simon Cramp, New Dimensions Group and MENCAP, were examined.

[Adjourned till tomorrow at half past Three o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 22 OCTOBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair

Baroness Barker

Mr John Bercow

Mrs Angela Browning

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Mrs Joan Humble

Huw Irranaca-Davies
Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Lord Rix

Baroness Wilkins

The Joint Committee deliberated.

Draft Mental Incapacity Bill: The Lord Filkin CBE, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State and Ms Claire Johnston, Head of Legal Advice and Legislation Division, Department for Constitutional Affairs; Ms Rosie Winterton MP, Minister of State and Mr Adrian Sieff, Head of Mental Health Legislation, Department of Health, were examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 11 November at Three o'clock.

TUESDAY 11 NOVEMBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair

Baroness Barker

Mrs Angela Browning

Mr Paul Burstow

Jim Dowd

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Stephen Hesford
Mrs Joan Humble

Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Baroness Wilkins

The Joint Committee deliberated.

[Adjourned till tomorrow at Three o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 12 NOVEMBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair

Baroness Barker

Mr Paul Burstow

Jim Dowd

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Stephen Hesford

Mrs Joan Humble

Huw Irranaca-Davies
Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Lord Rix

Baroness Wilkins

The Joint Committee deliberated.

[Adjourned till Monday 17 November at Three o'clock


MONDAY 17 NOVEMBER 2003

Members present:

Lord Carter, in the Chair.

Baroness Barker

Mr Paul Burstow

Jim Dowd

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Stephen Hesford
Huw Irranaca-Davies

Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Laura Moffat

Baroness Wilkins

The Joint Committee considered the draft report.

Paragraphs 1 to 288 were agreed to.

Paragraph 289 read as follows:

We therefore recommend that the Bill should set out the key principles governing research, such as those enshrined by the World Medical Association. Those key principles should include the following:

  • research involving people who may be incapacitated must be reviewed by a properly established and independent ethics committee and can only proceed if ethical permission is granted.
  • where a person has the capacity to consent then his decision whether or not to partake in research must be respected.
  • considerable care should be taken to ensure that under these circumstances consent to participate was freely given and not a consequence of coercion.
  • the inclusion of people in research, who lacked the capacity to consent, must only occur when such research has the potential for direct benefit to those with that particular problem and could not have been done through the involvement of those with capacity.
  • those undertaking research involving people lacking the capacity to consent must respect any indications that a person did not wish to participate (i.e. was dissenting).
  • any discomfort or risk involved in the research must be, at the most, minimal.

An amendment proposed, in line 3, after the word "following" to add the words "People judged to be incapable and unable to make decisions for themselves should not be used in medical research experimentation" - The Baroness Knight of Collingtree.

Question put, That the Amendment be made.

Ayes

Baroness Knight of Collingtree

Noes

Lord Carter

Baroness Barker

Paul Burstow

Jim Dowd

Baroness Fookes of Plymouth

Mr Stephen Hesford

Huw Irranca-Davies

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall

Baroness Wilkins

Paragraph agreed to.

Paragraphs 290 to 365 were agreed to.

Resolved, That the Joint Committee agreed that the draft report, as amended, be the report of the Joint Committee to both Houses.

The Annexes to the report were agreed to.

The Committee ordered the Chairman to make the report to the House of Lords and Jim Dowd to report to the House of Commons.

Ordered, The a guide to the Report in easy read format be published separately.


 
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Prepared 28 November 2003