Draft Protected Disclosures (Extension of Meaning of Worker) Order 2015
The Committee consisted of the following Members:
† Doughty, Stephen (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)
† Garnier, Sir Edward (Harborough) (Con)
† Healey, John (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
† Herbert, Nick (Arundel and South Downs) (Con)
† Kane, Mike (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
Lazarowicz, Mark (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)
† Lee, Dr Phillip (Bracknell) (Con)
† Love, Mr Andrew (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)
† McCartney, Karl (Lincoln) (Con)
† Mitchell, Austin (Great Grimsby) (Lab)
† Morris, Anne Marie (Newton Abbot) (Con)
† Mowat, David (Warrington South) (Con)
† Murray, Ian (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
Simpson, David (Upper Bann) (DUP)
† Stride, Mel (Central Devon) (Con)
† Swinson, Jo (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills)
Tredinnick, David (Bosworth) (Con)
† Ward, Mr David (Bradford East) (LD)
Katya Simms, Committee Clerk
† attended the Committee
Sixth Delegated Legislation Committee
Tuesday 3 February 2015
[Albert Owen in the Chair]
Draft Protected Disclosures (Extension of Meaning of Worker) Order 2015
2.37 pm
The Chair: Before I call the Minister, I apologise for my lateness.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson): I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Protected Disclosures (Extension of Meaning of Worker) Order 2015.
It is a delight to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. We are all happy that you are well. The order was laid before the House on 12 January 2015. Its purpose is to amend section 43K of the Employment Rights Act 1996 to bring student nurses and midwives into the scope of the whistleblowing framework contained in the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998—often referred to as PIDA—which introduced protection for whistleblowers. That change will ensure that student nurses and student midwives who witness poor practice can raise a concern without the fear that their future careers will be jeopardised.
This is just one measure that the Government are taking to improve the whistleblowing framework. The Government are committed to supporting whistleblowers and addressing the barriers they face when speaking up about important matters of public concern. In June last year, the Government announced that they would bring student nurses into the scope of the legislation. That was in response to a call for evidence that we issued to understand where the whistleblowing framework could be strengthened.
We know from a number of high-profile cases that student nurses and midwives are just as likely as qualified professionals to witness poor practice and any other wrongdoing. It therefore stands to reason that student nurses and midwives should be able to report their concerns without the fear of losing their place on an academic course or of their future registration as a nurse or midwife being threatened. Indeed, we heard from the Nursing and Midwifery Council that many students have concerns that they wish to raise. Students can be valuable eyes and ears on a hospital ward, helping to maintain good levels of patient care as long as we listen to them.
The Government have heard the strong case put forward on behalf of student nurses and student midwives, and we are acting to address the gap in the law to ensure that they receive the same protections as the qualified staff whom they work alongside. The order will enable a student nurse or student midwife to take a case to an employment tribunal if they are mistreated or dismissed as a result of blowing the whistle about the wrongdoing they have reported. We should no longer see tribunals dismissing a case on the basis that the claimant is a student nurse or student midwife.
There is an obvious question about why we are only extending the whistleblowing framework to student nurses and student midwives, rather than all students in the health sector. I want to assure the Committee that the Government do intend to extend the legislation to all students in the health care sector. However, the drafting of the legislation is more complex for the other groups and will take a bit more time to get right. It will require consultation with all the different professional bodies that register the various professions in the health sector and approve training courses. That will ensure that the legislation takes account of the differences in how students train and become qualified in each profession. We are already undertaking that work. Of course, it is unlikely to be completed within this Parliament, but I am sure that the next Government, whichever colour it might be, will support legislation that creates a culture of openness and transparency within the NHS.
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): I have listened carefully to what the Minister has said, but I want to check my understanding. She told the Committee that the Government have decided to extend the provision to other students in the health service but that there are complexities in doing that. Will she make clear why the explanatory memorandum, which she will have signed off, gives a misleading impression? It says that the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills would
“need to carry out more research to understand whether other student groups would be in a similar position to student nurses.”
In other words, the assurance she has given and the intentions she has made clear to the Committee are much clearer, stronger and more welcome than what she put in her explanatory memorandum.
Jo Swinson: I hope to be able to reassure the right hon. Gentleman and explain the nuance of this to the Committee. We want to extend these measures to other student health care workers, and we need to work with the professional bodies to ensure that we get the detail of that right. That work is under way and there need be no delay in it. As soon as it is completed—which, as I said, is expected to be in the next Parliament—we will be able to go ahead. I hope and am fairly confident that the Committee will agree that it is not sensible to hold up the protection for student nurses and student midwives while we get that work right.
There is a separate issue with other student groups that are not within the health care sector. A decision has not yet been taken on those groups, and we will need to see whether there is evidence of harm in other areas. It is obvious that this is a particular concern in the health sector, given well-documented evidence from cases at employment tribunals. The power that we made in the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013 to extend protections by amending the definition of worker in PIDA enables us to extend this measure to other categories of individual through secondary legislation.
We have made the decision on students within the health care sector. However, there may well be evidence at some point in the future suggesting, for example, that we should take this measure forward for students who are on a sandwich course in their third year of university but are working in industry. Research still needs to be done on that, but it is certainly possible under the delegated legislative powers in the 2013 Act. I know that
Sir Robert Francis QC is due to report shortly, following his “Freedom to Speak Up” review on this matter. I do not want to pre-empt that, but I am sure that he will agree that creating the right culture within the NHS applies to fully qualified professionals and students alike.Finally, I would like to thank the Nursing and Midwifery Council, the Royal College of Nursing and Public Concern at Work for their contributions to this. They have helped us to find a workable solution which will ensure that student nurses and student midwives feel able to raise concerns at work. I would also like to pay tribute to the work done by the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark) on this issue over many years. She has worked very hard to secure the right protection for whistleblowers, and I commend her for consistently raising this issue. I hope that the Committee will support the order.
2.43 pm
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): We will support the Government on this particular statutory instrument. You will be surprised to hear, Mr Owen, that despite the illustrious members of the Committee, we could not find anyone as distinguished as you to take the Chair when you were not here earlier. No one could match up to your experience in the Chair, despite us trying to get as many people as possible to put their names forward.
I will not rehearse the days and days we spent debating the issue of protected workers during the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill. That seems like 20 years ago, but it was just two years ago. We had concerns about the Government extending the public interest
requirement to whistleblowing, which we thought perhaps diluted people’s ability to make whistleblowing claims. We will also not rehearse the employment tribunal difficulties and the issues with fees that prevent many people from taking these cases to an employment tribunal, which is the mechanism for seeking redress under the regulations.I accept the reassurance that the Minister gave following the questions from my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne about the potential extension of the measures. Indeed, I echo the thanks to all the organisations that have been involved in this process. I would particularly like to thank my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran, who has done an awful lot in the House to bring these issues forward. We will not oppose the order.
2.45 pm
Jo Swinson: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his support for the measure. I hope and trust that the Committee will find that the order is necessary and important. Indeed, it is the latest in a long line of things that we have been able to do under this Government and, indeed, under previous Governments to further protect whistleblowers in the workplace. Whistleblowers play a really important role in ensuring that public service workplaces can progress in a safe manner. That is why it is right that they have protection, and the cross-party support for ensuring that is very welcome.