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13 Jan 2010 : Column 743

The House of Lords inquiry on apprenticeships concluded that one of the biggest barriers to young people's participating in apprenticeship training was the lack of basic skills, as pointed out by my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, South (Mr. Binley). Ofsted told the inquiry that a conservative estimate would be that 300,000 16 to 19-year-olds were unable to access apprenticeships because of a lack of basic skills. As my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Mr. Boswell) said, we need to build a pathway that helps more young people into apprenticeships and skilled employment. We need a programme of pre-apprenticeship training, with key skills such as numeracy and literacy embedded in learning a trade. That will demonstrate to young people the importance of such skills to their working life.

For the hard core of NEETs, who will at first need to take small steps back into learning and employment, we will establish extra FE college places every year. There will be 50,000 new places each year in colleges that are liberated-freed from the stifling bureaucracy that was identified by Andrew Foster in a report for the Government years ago, yet the Government have done so little about it. From new college courses through pre-apprenticeship training and real work-based apprenticeships to higher apprenticeships and foundation degrees, I want to build a ladder of opportunity that will be respected by learners and valued by employers.

The House would be disappointed if I did not say a brief word about the student loans crisis that was rightly identified by my hon. Friend the Member for Havant as a fundamental failure on the part of this Government. That is not merely the view of Members on the Opposition Benches or of critics of the Government on their own Benches. The report that the Government commissioned concluded that the Department itself was in part to blame, because of the confusion that it caused by moving the goalposts every time the Student Loans Company tried to organise its affairs.

I want to elicit from the Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships and Consumer Affairs, when he sums up, some answers to specific questions. It is immensely regrettable, as I am sure that he realises, that, as the review revealed,

I wrote to the Minister for Higher Education and Intellectual Property just before Christmas. I did not want to spoil his turkey dinner, but I felt that these questions needed to be answered. I am disappointed to say that I have still not had a reply, and so I hope that the Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships and Consumer Affairs will answer these questions.

On 10 December last year, Ministers indicated to the House that the backlog in cases would be cleared by the weekend of 12 December. Will the Minister confirm whether that was the case. If it is not, why not?

Will institutions that have used access to learning funds to cover the gap between students applying for and receiving loans receive support from either the Higher Education Funding Council for England or the Department? Does the Minister accept the conclusion of an independent review that many students missed
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the published deadlines for applications because they were not clearly stated or well publicised, and not well understood by applicants. Perhaps he could repeat what his ministerial colleagues have said: that the Government are offering a guarantee that there will be no January admissions crisis. It would be wrong were the House to learn later that the lessons had not been learned, and that students applying for admission to colleges and universities in January and February had faced the same difficulties as their predecessors.

Will the Minister give an absolute assurance that there will be no crisis this year? He has had long enough to give such an assurance, and the House wants to hear it. He knows what my hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David T.C. Davies) reminded him: the Government have failed. They have failed to reduce the number of those not in education, employment or training, to expand real apprenticeships and to help more disadvantaged people into university.

I want to deal with two points that the Minister raised. He will be familiar with the Higher Education Statistics Agency's performance indicators that were referenced in the 2006 Dearing report. However, the indicators remain stubbornly similar to those in the report, which revealed that working-class participation in universities had increased by just 1 per cent. since 1995. Participation programmes such as Aimhigher, on which the Government spent more than £2 billion a year, have produced a 1 per cent. increase in participation by working-class students.

I am not saying that we do not need to advise and guide, which is why we want an all-age careers service, and I am not saying that we do not need to address that problem, which is why we want to look at modes of learning, access points to learning and all the other ways in which we can widen participation-widening participation is top of my agenda. Let us not live in cloud cuckoo land though, but consider and address the facts, and see what we can do to change them.

I seek some clarity on one other matter, because the House would expect it to be on the record: the success or failure of Train to Gain. The Minister knows that the 2009 NAO report concluded that

that the dead-weight cost was about 50 per cent., and that many employers said that they would have arranged the training anyway, although that would not necessarily have resulted in a qualification. Train to Gain is immensely cost ineffective-and Ministers know it.

We have had a decade of failure-millions of shattered dreams and broken lives. Labour Members know that but are embarrassed to admit to it. They are too timid to own up and too faint-hearted to challenge. Indeed, if Labour MPs had populated the Bounty, there would not have been a mutiny and Captain Bligh would have got away with his punitive regime. Well, we will not let the Government continue to punish Britain's youth and Britain's future any longer. It is time for those who have failed to step aside and let those with perseverance and passion step forward, to let Britain grow and to bring new hope, jobs and opportunity. The Government are out of ideas, they are out of good people, they are out of tune, out of step and out of line-and very soon they will be out of office, too.

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3.44 pm

The Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships and Consumer Affairs (Kevin Brennan): This has been a most enjoyable debate, not least during the last contribution. Members' contributions have been of a high standard, as is often the case in such debates.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, East and Mexborough (Jeff Ennis) on his speech. He has had to attend a Select Committee, which is why he is not in his place now. However, he gave us an example of what is going on in Barnsley, which is an exemplar for the rest of the country in terms of skills.

I would also like to congratulate the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T.C. Davies). He knows that, personally, I like him immensely. He is a proper Tory, and we heard the authentic voice of the Conservative party in his contribution this afternoon. However, given his traducing of the training for the games industry, I should point out that it is now larger than the music industry in this country. The hon. Gentleman rather reminded me of John Lennon's Aunt Mimi, who advised him not to go into the music business because it was a complete waste of time.

I also congratulate the hon. Member for Northampton, South (Mr. Binley), who made a thoughtful and interesting contribution. He rightly recognised the value of the capital programme at the further education college in his area, from which his constituency has benefited, and the importance of jobs in the manufacturing industry.

That leads me to the hon. Member for Daventry (Mr. Boswell), who as ever made a highly thoughtful and intelligent contribution. He sits on the board of the university in my constituency, and a welcome board member he is, with the experience and wisdom that he brings. He spoke about the importance of the modern work force and modern manufacturing-I think that the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) intervened at that point. He mentioned the Formula 1 industry in his constituency and the fact that this is still a great manufacturing country-the sixth most important in the world-with a high level of skills.

That triggered off in my mind a story told by my predecessor, who until quite recently was the First Minister of Wales, about the plane involved in the miracle on the River Hudson. Captain Sullenberger, in a display of great heroism and skill, landed the plane on the Hudson. When the passengers got out and stood on the wings, which saved their lives, they were standing on wings that had been manufactured here in the UK, in north Wales. That is an example of the great British modern manufacturing that is out there around the world. We forget that. Frankly, hon. Members in all parts of the House do not blow our trumpet loudly enough when it comes to the great manufacturing industry that we still have in this country. It is right that this Government have a policy of industrial activism to develop that manufacturing industry further, through our "New Industry, New Jobs" policies.

The speech made by the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr. Hayes) was immensely enjoyable, as his speeches almost always are. They are not always entirely illuminating, but they are always hugely enjoyable and humorous. As ever, he included a poetry quotation. On this occasion it was from Yeats; if I remember correctly, on the previous occasion when we
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debated in the House he quoted Eliot. Perhaps I could quote for him another great lyricist-Madonna-and say that we have "heard it all before".

Mr. David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con): The Minister is dumbing down.

Kevin Brennan: I am not dumbing down, and that is an unfair accusation. I could quote poetry-my wife is a poetry editor-but we have indeed heard it all before.

Beyond that rhetoric-the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings accused my right hon. Friend the Minister for Higher Education of windy rhetoric and partisan bombast; there were elements of kettle, pot and black in that remark. The Opposition motion asks three fairly important questions. First, should we be expanding apprenticeships, as we are doing? Secondly, should we be reducing bureaucracy for FE colleges, as we are also doing? Thirdly, should we be offering record numbers of university places? Again, that is exactly what we are doing right now, with 43 per cent. of young people going on to university. Let us look at those questions in a little more detail in the time available.

Despite what the hon. Gentleman said-he did not allow me to intervene to make this point-the expansion of apprenticeships is a remarkable story. It is a success story for the Government and for the country. It is not unfair to say that apprenticeships were withering on the vine before this Government came into power. There were 240,000 apprenticeship starts in 2008-09, which, despite what he said, is the largest number ever. He also complained and asked whether I could confirm that the number of higher-level apprenticeship starts in 2008-09 was below 80,000. No, I cannot confirm that, because the figure in 2008-09 was 81,400-it was more than 80,000, not less, as he implied.

Mr. Binley: The Minister talks about apprenticeship starts. Will he tell us about the attrition level? How many of those people do not conclude their courses?

Kevin Brennan: I am very pleased that the hon. Gentleman asked me that, because the success rate for apprenticeships last year rose by 6 per cent. to 70 per cent. That is more than double what it has been previously. That is a remarkable success story and a remarkable rate of growth. As I have said, the motion is inaccurate in stating that there has been an overall fall in the number of apprenticeship starts. The rate is remarkable for a time of recession, given that apprenticeships are essentially work-based training. We all have to acknowledge the challenges that economic downturn and recession bring for the younger age group, particularly 16 to 18-year-olds, who are especially badly hit during a recession. That is exactly why the Government have taken all the measures that we have in relation to young people.

I am glad that the Under-Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families, my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Mr. Wright), who deals with the under-19s, is present. We have done a lot to try to assist that age group, including through the September guarantee, which the Opposition have consistently refused to match. Neither the Conservative Front Benchers who are present today nor those in the Department for Children, Schools and Families shadow team have
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committed to the September guarantee. We brought in the January guarantee to make sure that people can enter employment training if they are unable to find work or other forms of training, and that is exactly why we are also introducing a £2,500 incentive for employers to support 5,000 new apprenticeship places for 16 and 17-year-olds now. As I have been able to say, thanks to the intervention of the hon. Member for Northampton, South, we are now hitting record completion rates for apprenticeships that are well over double what they used to be. Despite what the Opposition say in their attempts to downplay apprenticeships and to make out that they are something like those under the youth training scheme, which was the Conservatives response to youth unemployment, they are quality apprenticeships with a high level of success, and the young people who undertake them make great achievements.

Apprenticeships are just one of the four national learning pathways that we have introduced for 16 to 18-year-olds. The Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009 will ensure that apprenticeship places are available for all suitably qualified young people by 2013. We anticipate that one in five young people will undertake apprenticeships in the next decade. They will be a key route to bringing us out of the economic downturn, and it is vital that we continue to invest in young people in that way. As I have said, the take-up of apprenticeships continues to rise, and the number of completions has smashed all previous records. We have hit our public service agreement target on apprenticeships two years ahead of target, so I shall not take any lessons on this issue. In our recent "Skills for Growth" White Paper, as part of the national skills strategy, we have committed to having 35,000 new places for 19 to 30-year-olds in higher-level apprenticeships in the next two years. We have introduced group training models so that smaller businesses can work together to provide apprenticeships, and that approach has the potential to develop another 15,000 places in the next few years. We have also committed £5 million for the development of new frameworks at levels 3 and 4, so the Opposition's charge about higher-level apprenticeships is completely unfounded.

The hon. Member for Havant talked about progression, which is an important issue. He talked about the report of the right hon. Member for Darlington (Mr. Milburn) and the importance of trying to inspire apprentices to build their skills up to the higher education level. We have committed-again in the skills strategy-to introduce an apprenticeship scholarship fund from the autumn, and we are currently working through the details of that undertaking.

Mr. Hayes: Will the Minister give way?

Kevin Brennan: By asking me to give way, the hon. Gentleman must be implying that my rhetoric is not as good as his rhetoric, because he gave the quality of his rhetoric as a reason not to give way to me. [ Interruption. ] I am, indeed, nicer, but I am going to carry on for a moment.

The second charge in the Opposition's motion was about bureaucracy. We are doing a great deal to reduce bureaucracy in FE colleges. In our investment strategy
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and in our "Skills for Growth" paper, we have clearly indicated the types of measures that we are taking to reduce bureaucracy. Good and outstanding colleges no longer have to be inspected every two or three years, but every six years. Good and outstanding colleges may now choose to switch their money-to "vire", to use the technical term-right across their budgets and they are subject to much-reduced audit. Indeed, all colleges, not just good or outstanding ones, can now switch their expenditure within their budget headings on learner-responsive and employer-responsive budgets, and we have reduced the number of agencies that they have to talk to. It is not true that the Government are not making progress on reducing bureaucracy, on which we should be constantly vigilant. We are determined to carry on with that simplification agenda and to carry on reducing bureaucracy.

The number of students is the third element of the Opposition motion. The Opposition called on us to clarify matters about the Student Loans Company, and I understand from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State that the backlog has been cleared and that we have accepted the terms of the review, which I was asked about earlier. I cannot guarantee the hon. Member for Havant that there will not be a crisis this year, however, as according to some bookmakers, there could be a Conservative Government this year. If that happened, I could not guarantee that there would not be a further crisis. Nevertheless, the measures that we have taken and our acceptance of the Hopkin report's recommendations will go a long way towards improving the situation.

I cannot leave the subject of extra student numbers without once again referring to the proposal in the Opposition motion to create 10,000 extra places for students next year. The hon. Member for Havant said that he could raise £300 million from getting 1 per cent. of the money returned to the Government as part of his programme. He said that he would get that money by offering a discount to those who repaid early. Well, earlier in 2008-09, £300 million was already paid back early. If his proposal were adopted, he would have to pay, with his 10 per cent. discount, £30 million to people who were going to pay the Government back anyway. That £30 million dead-weight cost would be needed in order to work the little three-card trick that he has developed to avoid facing the fact that funding extra places means providing the money.

I advise the hon. Member for Havant to go and see his hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr. Osborne). When he goes into his hon. Friend's room, he should tell him to sit down and take the weight off his feet for a moment, and explain that what he really needs to do if he wants to create extra student places is decide to spend the money necessary to provide them. If he wants to do that, he is going to have to borrow the money. Alternatively, the hon. Gentleman could tell the shadow Chancellor that he wants to spend £30 million for nothing-on students who are already paying the money back.

Rob Marris: I am sorry to interrupt my hon. Friend's flow of rhetoric, which is considerable, but does he agree that the Conservative motion is not entirely clear about the 10,000 places, because the implication is that those 10,000 places would be there for ever more, whereas it is in fact a one-off for only one cohort?

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Kevin Brennan: As my hon. Friend rightly points out-he got the Opposition to elucidate earlier-this is a one-off three-card trick. I do not think the policy could possibly be sustained over a period of time, because it is a false way of trying to fund the extra places. If the hon. Member for Havant wants to fund these places-it is a legitimate aspiration to fund more places in higher education; we have done it year after year so that we now have record numbers of places-he has to be up front with the British people, he has to be straight with the House and he has to say that he is prepared to spend the money, by borrowing if necessary, to do so. Otherwise, he will simply not be believed, and he will waste £30 million on a dead-weight cost, which is an absolute waste of public money.

Question put (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the original words stand part of the Question.

The House proceeded to a Division.

Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby.

The House having divided: Ayes 228, Noes 311.
Division No. 37]
[3.59 pm


Afriyie, Adam
Ainsworth, Mr. Peter
Amess, Mr. David
Ancram, rh Mr. Michael
Atkinson, Mr. Peter
Bacon, Mr. Richard
Baker, Norman
Baldry, Tony
Barker, Gregory
Baron, Mr. John
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Bellingham, Mr. Henry
Benyon, Mr. Richard
Beresford, Sir Paul
Binley, Mr. Brian
Blunt, Mr. Crispin
Bone, Mr. Peter
Boswell, Mr. Tim
Bottomley, Peter
Brady, Mr. Graham
Brake, Tom
Brazier, Mr. Julian
Breed, Mr. Colin
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Browning, Angela
Burns, Mr. Simon
Burrowes, Mr. David
Burstow, Mr. Paul
Burt, Alistair
Burt, Lorely
Butterfill, Sir John
Cable, Dr. Vincent
Cameron, rh Mr. David
Campbell, Mr. Gregory
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Cash, Mr. William
Chope, Mr. Christopher
Clark, Greg
Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey
Cox, Mr. Geoffrey
Curry, rh Mr. David
Davies, David T.C. (Monmouth)
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh David
Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan
Dodds, Mr. Nigel
Donaldson, rh Mr. Jeffrey M.
Dorrell, rh Mr. Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Duddridge, James
Duncan, Alan
Dunne, Mr. Philip
Ellwood, Mr. Tobias
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Evennett, Mr. David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Mr. Michael
Field, Mr. Mark
Foster, Mr. Don
Fox, Dr. Liam
Francois, Mr. Mark
Fraser, Christopher
Gale, Mr. Roger
Garnier, Mr. Edward
Gauke, Mr. David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Gidley, Sandra
Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl
Goldsworthy, Julia
Goodman, Mr. Paul
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Gove, Michael
Gray, Mr. James
Grayling, Chris
Green, Damian
Greening, Justine
Greenway, Mr. John

Grieve, Mr. Dominic
Gummer, rh Mr. John
Hague, rh Mr. William
Hammond, Mr. Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Hands, Mr. Greg
Harper, Mr. Mark
Hayes, Mr. John
Heald, Mr. Oliver
Heath, Mr. David
Heathcoat-Amory, rh Mr. David
Hemming, John
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, Nick
Hermon, Lady
Hoban, Mr. Mark
Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Holloway, Mr. Adam
Holmes, Paul
Horam, Mr. John
Horwood, Martin
Howard, rh Mr. Michael
Howarth, David
Howarth, Mr. Gerald
Howell, John
Hughes, Simon
Huhne, Chris
Hunt, Mr. Jeremy
Hunter, Mark
Hurd, Mr. Nick
Jack, rh Mr. Michael
Jackson, Mr. Stewart
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Jones, Mr. David
Kawczynski, Daniel
Keetch, Mr. Paul
Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles
Key, Robert
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Knight, rh Mr. Greg
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mr. Mark
Laws, Mr. David
Leech, Mr. John
Leigh, Mr. Edward
Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver
Lewis, Dr. Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew
Maclean, rh David
Main, Anne
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
Maples, Mr. John
Mates, rh Mr. Michael
May, rh Mrs. Theresa
McCrea, Dr. William
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick
Mercer, Patrick
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, Mr. Andrew
Moore, Mr. Michael
Moss, Mr. Malcolm
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, David
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr. Brooks
O'Brien, Mr. Stephen
Öpik, Lembit
Osborne, Mr. George
Ottaway, Richard
Paice, Mr. James
Paterson, Mr. Owen
Pelling, Mr. Andrew
Penrose, John
Pickles, Mr. Eric
Prisk, Mr. Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, Dr. John
Randall, Mr. John
Redwood, rh Mr. John
Reid, Mr. Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, Mr. Andrew
Robertson, Mr. Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rowen, Paul
Russell, Bob
Sanders, Mr. Adrian
Scott, Mr. Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, Grant
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, David
Simpson, Mr. Keith
Smith, Chloe
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, Mr. Nicholas
Spelman, Mrs. Caroline
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spring, Mr. Richard
Stanley, rh Sir John
Steen, Mr. Anthony
Streeter, Mr. Gary
Stunell, Andrew
Swayne, Mr. Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, Mr. Hugo
Syms, Mr. Robert
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, Matthew
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Tredinnick, David
Turner, Mr. Andrew
Tyrie, Mr. Andrew
Vaizey, Mr. Edward
Vara, Mr. Shailesh
Viggers, Sir Peter
Villiers, Mrs. Theresa
Wallace, Mr. Ben
Walter, Mr. Robert
Waterson, Mr. Nigel
Watkinson, Angela
Whittingdale, Mr. John
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Willetts, Mr. David
Williams, Mark
Williams, Mr. Roger
Williams, Stephen
Willis, Mr. Phil
Wilshire, Mr. David
Wilson, Mr. Rob
Wilson, Sammy
Winterton, Ann

Winterton, Sir Nicholas
Wright, Jeremy
Young, rh Sir George
Younger-Ross, Richard
Tellers for the Ayes:

Mr. Stephen Crabb and
Bill Wiggin

Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Allen, Mr. Graham
Anderson, Mr. David
Armstrong, rh Hilary
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Bain, Mr. William
Baird, Vera
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barlow, Ms Celia
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr. Joe
Berry, Roger
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Borrow, Mr. David S.
Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Browne, rh Des
Bryant, Chris
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Burnham, rh Andy
Byers, rh Mr. Stephen
Byrne, rh Mr. Liam
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Campbell, Mr. Ronnie
Caton, Mr. Martin
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Challen, Colin
Chapman, Ben
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clark, Ms Katy
Clark, Paul
Clarke, rh Mr. Charles
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cook, Frank
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Curtis-Thomas, Mrs. Claire
David, Mr. Wayne
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Davies, Mr. Dai
Davies, Mr. Quentin
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Denham, rh Mr. John
Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Drew, Mr. David
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Engel, Natascha
Ennis, Jeff
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr. Frank
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
George, rh Mr. Bruce
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gilroy, Linda
Godsiff, Mr. Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Griffith, Nia
Griffiths, Nigel
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr. Peter
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr. David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Mr. Tom
Havard, Mr. Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Heppell, Mr. John
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David

Hill, rh Keith
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hood, Mr. Jim
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Howells, rh Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Irranca-Davies, Huw
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Lynne
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Keen, Ann
Kelly, rh Ruth
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, rh Mr. David
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
Love, Mr. Andrew
Lucas, Ian
Mackinlay, Andrew
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Mallaber, Judy
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert
Martlew, Mr. Eric
Mason, John
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McCartney, rh Mr. Ian
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr. Pat
McFall, rh John
McGuire, rh Mrs. Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McNulty, rh Mr. Tony
Meacher, rh Mr. Michael
Meale, Mr. Alan
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Milburn, rh Mr. Alan
Miliband, rh David
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Moffat, Anne
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morgan, Julie
Morley, rh Mr. Elliot
Mudie, Mr. George
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, rh Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
O'Brien, rh Mr. Mike
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Osborne, Sandra
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Pearson, Ian
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Bridget
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Prescott, rh Mr. John
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, rh James
Rammell, Bill
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, rh John
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Roy, Mr. Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Christine
Ryan, rh Joan
Salter, Martin
Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr. Virendra
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Simpson, Alan
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andy
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon)
Smith, Geraldine
Smith, rh Jacqui
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen

Spellar, rh Mr. John
Spink, Bob
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, Ian
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Tami, Mark
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, Dr. Richard
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, rh Mr. Don
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Twigg, Derek
Waltho, Lynda
Ward, Claire
Watson, Mr. Tom
Watts, Mr. Dave
Weir, Mr. Mike
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, rh Malcolm
Williams, rh Mr. Alan
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Williams, Hywel
Wills, rh Mr. Michael
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Dr. Tony
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Noes:

Mr. Bob Blizzard and
Mary Creagh
Question accordingly negatived.
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