 House of Commons |
Session 2008 - 09 Publications on the internet General Committee Debates Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Bill |
Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Bill [Lords] |
The Committee consisted of the following Members:Mick Hillyard,
Committee Clerk † attended
the Committee Public Bill CommitteeTuesday 16 June 2009(Afternoon)[Mr. Eric Illsley in the Chair]Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Bill [Lords]Clause 68Leaders’
Boards 4.30
pm Question
(this day) again proposed, That the clause stand part of the
Bill.
The
Minister for Regional Economic Development and Co-ordination (Ms Rosie
Winterton): We had quite a wide-ranging discussion at the
start of my responding remarks. At this stage, I do not want to repeat
the arguments why we need regional decision making and regional
strategies—we went through those clearly this morning. However,
it is worth noting the support that we have received for this part of
the Bill. Margaret Eaton, chair of the Local Government Association,
said that the Bill
will “give
councillors the power to effect real economic change in their local
areas.” My
right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich read out a
letter that the Committee received from 4NW about the views of the
people in local government. I would like to add to those comments, some
remarks from the chairman of the South West Strategic Leaders Board,
Councillor Angus Campbell, a
Conservative: “On
behalf of the South West Strategic Leaders Board I’m delighted
that Government has confirmed the early transfer of the
Assembly’s functions. The Board brings Council Leaders together
in the most effective decision making grouping for the South
West. I believe the Assembly achieved a great deal but now is a
time for a change. This announcement is a milestone in taking
forward more effective decision making in the South West. I look
forward to working with the Board of the Regional Development Agency as
we drive forward into a new phase for the
region.” Arthur
Barker, from Yorkshire and Humber,
said: “'Throughout
Yorkshire and Humber we have a strong track record of working with
cross party
support”— Arthur
Barker is a Conservative, as the right hon. Member for Skipton and
Ripon will
know— “on
issues to shape our region and make our communities better places.
Local Government in the region is strong and these new arrangements
will help to maximise the value we can add for our communities by
collaborating at the sub-regional and regional
level.” Julia
Goldsworthy (Falmouth and Camborne) (LD): The Minister is
going through some of the representations that she received on the
proposals. Will she tell us whether she received any representations
from members of the public, given that the Bill is about local
democracy, which the previous Secretary of State said is about engaging
people? What evidence does the Minister have to suggest that the
proposals will help to engage people directly with the process of
government?
Ms
Winterton: There are two issues. Earlier on, we explored
the idea for increased engagement through petitions, and through
councils promoting understanding of how local people get involved, all
of which the hon. Lady voted against. The reason why she opposed those
measures is completely beyond me—but then again, trying to marry
the different Lib Dem approaches to policy and non-policy has been a
completely enlightening
experience. In
terms of people’s responses to the proposals, we indeed
consulted. We know that people want a powerful voice for local
government to draw up strategies with regional development agencies.
This morning, the hon. Lady voted against having any regional
strategies, under the spurious excuse that somehow, the regional
boundaries were wrong. However, in doing so, and in continuing her
voting record on the Bill, she is at every turn voting down proposals
that will strengthen local democracy and decision making, particularly
at regional
level. I
will finish by quoting Councillor Mick Henry, who is a Labour member
and chair of the Association of North East Councils. He
said: “This
opportunity for us to more effectively shape and determine our own
economic future in the region is strongly welcomed and we will be
working closely with partners as part of a commitment to making
implementation of the SNR proposals a success in the North
East”.
Mr.
Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): The right hon. Lady
is perfecting the technique of body swerving legitimate questions put
by Opposition Members. She was asked about a specific point. Of course,
we are happy to hear an encyclopaedia of civic life throughout Britain
and views on her particular policies, but the hon. Member for Falmouth
and Camborne asked a specific question—how many representations
has the Minister received from members of the public that support her
proposals? It is a simple question.
Ms
Winterton: Obviously, the hon. Gentleman will know
that I cannot name every individual who responded to the proposals.
However, I can say that we had a number of responses to the
consultation from local government. Although the Opposition spent most
of the morning sneering at both councillors and their input,
councillors are able to reflect the views of local people. In
particular, the view they have taken with regard to ensuring that the
regional development agency works closely, through the leaders’
board, with local councils is exactly what the public want.
The
Opposition say that the regional development agencies are unaccountable
and that they do not believe there is adequate local government
representation. However, as soon as we bring forward proposals for that
representation and partnership, they sneer about sashes and grand
approaches by councillors. If they took the time to consult their own
councillors, they would find that our proposals have been welcomed as a
good way forward. I hope that the Committee will support the clause. It
is about getting the right partnership between the RDA and local
authorities in the area so that they can draw up an effective regional
strategy that will help local people, local communities and local
businesses. I
shall briefly address the issue about representations from members of
the public. As I said, it is not possible for me to name every
individual, but in the interests of
being helpful I can tell the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne that
we summarised the feedback from the consultation in our Government
response in November 2008. I am more than happy to make available to
the hon. Lady or any other Committee member an analysis of the
respondents.
I want to
address two other things. We do not want to assert from the centre that
leaders’ boards will look the same in every region. What we want
to do is recognise that local authorities are obviously mature bodies
that are able to have discussions about how to constitute the
leaders’ boards. That is why we have said that we want them to
have their own arrangements. The overall purpose is to give local
authorities a stronger collective voice at regional level. We have
tried to provide a transparent process for establishing the mechanism
that will enable the local authorities to act collectively and with
authority. It is encouraging for our approach that approximately five
of the regions have put together ideas about their leaders’
board. There have been a number of discussions in those regions with
local authorities on exactly what the board should look
like. It
is important to reassure the Committee that within that process, we
have been anxious to ensure that there is scrutiny so that the
voluntary and trade union sectors, for example, can retain in their
discussions with local authority leaders some of their input to
regional
assemblies. Mr.
David Curry (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): As we have said, it
is expected to take five years to produce a plan, but the complexion of
local government in any area could change quite dramatically in that
time. The plans must be approved by the Secretary of State. Does the
Secretary of State have any notional guidelines on the maximum number
of people for a leaders’ board? Is the leader appointed
personally or ex officio? The south-east region has 77 councils to
represent. If the leader represents a bunch of district councils, for
example, should there be arrangements for changing them in the event of
a significant change of political complexion during the five years of
drawing up the plan? What would be the term of office? What would the
Secretary of State regard as a sensible period of appointment for
someone on the board?
Ms
Winterton: That is the point of establishing the scheme. I
am not sure whether the official Opposition did not want a scheme or
whether they voted with the Lib Dems that there should not be a scheme,
but the idea of the scheme addresses exactly the right hon.
Gentleman’s point—it enables participating authorities to
set out both the composition and operation of the board. We would
expect it to include information, for example, on how the
leaders’ board proposes to resolve differences of opinion within
the board, between the authorities that it represents, and between the
board and the RDA.
On
representation, we have said that the representatives on the
leaders’ board do not have to be leaders. However, we will
advise that they should be people of sufficient stature so that, for
example, they can make decisions on behalf of the authority and
represent
it.
Ms
Winterton: All elected members. Of course, leaders’
board members need to be able to command the authority of the council
that they represent, but we are not
dictating that they have to be the leaders of those councils. The person
must be someone whom the authority believes to be a good and strong
representative of its views.
Mr.
Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): The Minister
has exposed a lacuna in the Bill. I can find no clause that defines
what the leader on the leaders’ board is supposed to lead. She
spoke as if the leaders are to be leaders of local authorities, but as
I understand it, they could be leaders of business, trade unions,
churches, charities or any kind of leader. There is no restriction in
the Bill to say that the person has to be an elected member of a
council. Indeed, a council official could be appointed to the
leaders’ board. If I am wrong, perhaps the Minister could point
me to the clause that would expose my
error.
Ms
Winterton: The clause makes it clear, and we have always
been clear, that we are talking about representatives. That is the
democratic accountability that we have built
in. 4.45
pm Mr.
Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): I believe
that the right hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden was not able to be
with us this morning, so he did not hear me read out a letter from 4NW,
the regional leaders’ forum for the north-west of England. It
gave a very clear indication of the composition of the leaders’
board being set up in that region, which comprises leaders of relevant
local authorities—not all the local authorities, but the main
local authorities in the area—along with representatives of the
business community, the voluntary sector, trade unions and other
people. They are people who will act in a leadership role within the
region to help to drive forward the economic development agenda, which
is what the Bill is all about. I thus strongly urge my right hon.
Friend the Minister to be robust in defending the principles that are
set out in the Government’s policy, which the Conservatives seem
to have some difficulty
appreciating.
Ms
Winterton: My right hon. Friend is
absolutely—[Interruption.] As I have said,
the basic problem, which my right hon. Friend has once again put his
finger on, is that the official Opposition really do not want anything
to do with regional strategy at all and, frankly, they do not believe
in the economic model that we have established. Therefore, on every
occasion, they are basically doing what they can to undermine the
principles that we are trying to establish in the
Bill.
Ms
Winterton: Regarding how the leaders’ boards are
constituted, we have said to the individual authorities that they will
need to come forward with a scheme that will then be put forward to the
Secretary of State. That is set out very clearly in clause 68(3).
Members of the Committee will see that, within that measure, the
following authorities are obviously set out:
“a district
council...a county council...a National Park
authority...the Broads Authority.”
It is the participating
authorities themselves that must prepare the scheme. Inevitably, it
will be the elected members of those authorities who must agree who
will go forward to represent each authority. We have also made it very
clear that the person who goes forward on to the leaders’ board
must be somebody who is not necessarily the leader of the council or
authority, but a representative who is able to make decisions,
particularly about the allocation of funding or resources. That person
must be able to be a representative of the council or authority
itself.
In all the
cases that have emerged, the people who have been put forward by the
local authorities have been elected representatives. For example, in
the Yorkshire and Humber area, they have been joining in with the joint
boards themselves. That is why the schemes themselves will look very
closely at democratically elected representatives. This is what local
authorities have asked for. They asked for the schemes to be
established in this way so that they themselves can have elected
representatives on the leaders’
board.
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