The
Chairman: I now ask the Minister to move the motion that
certain written evidence already reported to the
House—
Damian
Green: On a point of order, Sir Nicholas. I do not
believe that we divided on new clause 10.
The
Chairman: It has already been debated and I was not aware
that the Opposition wished to press it to a Division. If that is the
case, I am perfectly happy that they have their
wish.
New Clause
10Restriction
on studies: further
definition ‘(1) The Company
and Business Names Regulations 1981 (S.I. 1981/1685) are
amended by inserting “College” in column (1) of the
Schedule.
(2) Section 2(1)(b) of the Business Names Act 1985
(c.7) does not apply to the carrying on of the business under a name
which includes the word “college” by a
person— (a) to whom the
business is transferred on or after the date on which section 52 came
into force; and (b) who carries
on the business under the name which was its lawful business name and
immediately before that
transfer, during the twelve
months beginning with the date of the
transfer. (3) Section 2(1)(b)
of the Business Names Act 1985 (c.7) shall not apply to the carrying on
of the business under a name which includes a word
“college” by a person
who— (a) carried on that
business immediately before the date on which section 52 came into
force; and (b) continues to
carry it on under the name which immediately before that date was its
lawful name.’.—(Damian
Green.) Brought
up, and read the First
time. Question
put, That the clause be read a Second
time. The
Committee divided: Ayes 5, Noes
6.
Division
No.
11] Question
accordingly negatived.
The
Chairman: So that the Committee is fully aware, let me say
that new clause 10 was debated with amendment 57. I say to
Her Majesty’s Opposition that it would have been appropriate for
them to have advised me that they wished to press it to a
Division.
The
Chairman: Are you going to question the
Chairman?
Mr.
Burns: No. I was going to give an explanation and an
apology.
The
Chairman: Let me conclude what I was saying. It would have
been appropriate for us to have been advised that a Division was
requested on new clause 10.
Mr.
Burns: I give you my abject apologies, Sir Nicholas. I had
just assumed that when we came in the proceedings to new clause 10, it
would be automatically disposed of, like similar amendments, even
though we had debated it. If that is wrong, it is my
fault.
The
Chairman: The Opposition Whip has been duly courteous. I
think we can say that there has been a misunderstanding. I fully accept
the explanation and as a result, we have dealt with things in entirely
the correct
way. This has been an excellent Committee, so we do not want in any way
to criticise what has happened, but the requirement of a Division has
been
honoured. Ordered, That
certain written evidence already reported to the House be appended to
the proceedings of the Committee.—(Mr.
Woolas.) Question
proposed, That the Chairman do report the Bill, as amended, to the
House.
Mr.
Woolas: I rise briefly, although we have much time left.
My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hall Green is an experienced
Whip and I thank him and his counterparts for the organisation of these
proceedings. We have not had internal knives and we have not felt under
undue pressure. Ministers are often required to read regulations and
policies into Hansard, and in this area of law in particular,
there are many thousands of people outside the House in the immigration
world who read every word very carefully, so I apologise to my hon.
Friends and Opposition Members if they are fed up with listening to my
Lancashire tones, but that is required sometimes. I thank my hon.
Friends and the hon. Member for West Chelmsford for organising
matters. I
also thank other members of the Committee. I try to build consensus for
a Bill by working on its principles in formal and informal circles, but
I also try to answer as comprehensively as possible the questions that
hon. Members put from both sides of the Committee. This is a very
complex area of law. The hon. Member for Ashford teased me about the
number of Bills, and a draft simplification Bill is coming forward. The
first part of the Bill has largely an organisational impact. The second
part of the Bill will have profoundly beneficial long-term impacts on
this country. That is why trying to secure consensus on it has been
particularly
important. I
thank the Clerks, who as ever have acted with superb professionalism. I
thank the Bill team from the Home Office and across Whitehall who have
worked on it for many months. I have been, in one capacity or another,
responsible for 17 Bills in the House and I can say that the team who
have been helping me and the Opposition in briefings are superb. I am
very proud of them and grateful to them. We did, of course, get a run
through the mill in the other place and I can tell you, Sir Nicholas,
that West of Spithead is not somebody who abandons ship lightly, nor
does he give in to an argument easily, so we have benefited. I did not
want this Bill to start in the House of Lords, but it did, and I
confess now that it is a better Bill for
that. Finally,
I thank you, Sir Nicholas, for your chairmanship, with Miss Begg, and
Mr. Gale at one sitting. I think that you know the esteem in
which I hold you as a Chair and, indeed, as a constituency MP. I can
tell the Committee that I often disembark from the train at
Macclesfield to get my hair cut. There is a photograph of you cutting
the ribbon in the hairdresser’s from some years ago. If I could
get that sort of recognition in my constituency, perhaps I would have
your majority. [Interruption.] The haircut we will be silent on.
Thank you, Sir Nicholas, for your chairmanship and your wisdom and
guidance, as
ever.
Damian
Green: May I also extend my thanks to you, Sir Nicholas?
As the Minister ended with the Chairman, I shall start with the
Chairman, and with the small piece
of advice for the Minister that if he wants to have his picture in
hairdressers in his constituency, perhaps he should get his hair cut in
his own constituency and not yours, Sir Nicholas; but that is just a
tip.
You have
served the Committee very well, Sir Nicholas, and I thank both you and
Miss Begg for your firmness and courtesy. I thank Mr. Gale
for the short, whirlwind sitting when he proceeded at such a pace that
he was moving on even before the Government Whip had got to his feet to
move the Adjournment. We would have been there for many hours had
Mr. Gale had his way, but we would have finished the Bill
several sittings earlier. I thank also the Clerks for their help,
especially at the start of the Committee. It has gone smoothly and I am
grateful for that.
I agree with
the Minister that the Bill is better for having started in the Lords.
Their lordships’ debates were of an extremely high calibre and
illustrated the pinch points of the Bill. I am grateful to the Minister
for effectively conceding one of our amendments and for promising that
the Government will implement that in relation to the provision of
statistics. I am also grateful to him for promising to take away and
look at what is still the most contentious part of the Bill. No doubt
we will have further and better debates on that in the Bill’s
later stages. I am glad that the Committee has proceeded so smoothly,
Sir
Nicholas.
Tom
Brake: I echo the thanks given to those who have
participated in making the Committee a smooth-running and satisfactory
affair. In the past, I have dreaded the Committee stages of Bills
because of their complexity, but this one has been very well managed. I
thank you, Sir Nicholas, for chairing this sitting and others so
effectively, and I thank Miss Begg and Mr. Gale for their
roles.
I thank the
Minister in particular, as he has been very straightforward and
courteous. He has done a very effective job of explaining complicated
issues in a way that has been extremely helpful and that will be well
documented in Hansard. He has also made some helpful comments
about discretion and how it can be applied in appropriate
circumstances. Clearly, some issues still require further
investigation, such as how active participation and volunteering are
going to work, as there are still some difficulties there. Apart from
that, this has been a productive and positive experience, which I look
forward to repeating at some
point.
The
Chairman: Perhaps I should have the last word from the
Chair. I congratulate the Minister, the shadow Minister and his
colleague, and the spokesman for the Liberal Democrat party, on the
constructive and positive way in which they have dealt with this
important Bill. It has gone through very smoothly because of the
co-operation between both sides of the Committee. I sometimes think
that such co-operation shows Parliament at its best—doing the
job that it is here to do.
I thank the
Clerk for the guidance and advice that she has needed to give to me
from time to time. I thank the police, the doorkeepers and, of course,
the very important Hansard writers, because it is always helpful
to have everything that we have said recorded truly and properly for
prosperity.
I listened to
the debate on the Gurkhas with some interest, and I am happy to tell
the Minister and the Committee that the regiment with which I had the
honour to serve, the 14th/20th King’s Hussars, now the
King’s Royal Hussars, had the great honour of being able to wear
the Gurkhas’ cross kukris on our uniform jacket because of the
battles we had fought with the Gurkhas in past campaigns.
I thank the
Committee for dealing with the Bill in such a constructive way, and I
shall pass on to my co-Chairmen, Miss Anne Begg and Roger Gale, the
thanks and appreciation that have been expressed to us all. We were
happy to do it, and the Committee has been a good
one. Question
put and agreed
to. Bill,
as amended, to be
reported. 2.45
pm Committee
rose.
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