Examination of Witnesses (Questions 440
- 450)
TUESDAY 4 MARCH 2008
MR VERNON
COAKER MP
Q440 Margaret Moran: It has been
suggested to us that we should put forward a public information
campaign. We went to Refuge to see the hotline yesterday. The
resources to be able to man the hotlines to deal with the campaign
are woeful. Would you look at the value for money arguments for
increasing the capacity of the Women's Aid and Refuge hotline
because it is clear that there are money saving arguments there
which I am sure the Treasury would be interested in? Have you
looked at what other European countries such as the Netherlands
and Germany are doing by introducing something called "go-orders",
which allows ten days respite whereby the perpetrator is taken
out of the family home to enable the safeguarding of the victim?
Has that ever been considered by the Department?
Mr Coaker: No, but it is something
we clearly need to look at. Thank you for raising that. I will
look at the issue of the helpline again. We give £500,000
from the Home Office to the helpline, but of course if it is in
difficulty we will look at it. It raises the broader point that
Ms Buck raised about the need to support these organisations and
the various mechanisms for support that are available to victims
out there in the community and it is something we need to look
at. We already support it, but I will look at the problem that
you have raised.
Q441 Mr Winnick: Why did ministers
come to the view that the arguments against were more powerful
than for in making false marriages a criminal offence?
Mr Coaker: We took that view following
the public consultation that took place in 2005. The overwhelming
view from that evidence was that by making it a criminal offence
you would actually increase the problem by driving it underground
rather than helping. Many of the people involved in this know
that it is within the family. There was a fear that you could
have a situation whereby family members would possibly be criminalised
by the actions of a family member. You will know that the Forced
Marriage Protection Act that we have got coming in in the autumn
has taken a different route, that is, the civil route of trying
to deal with forced marriage through Forced Marriage Protection
Orders. If those orders were to be breached then there would be
a criminal sanction. We are always open to looking at these things.
The reason we did it was simply that people out there told us
it would not help the situation. I also think what will help is
the consultation we are having with respect to third parties being
able to represent victims and put forward victims to the court
for the giving of a Forced Marriage Protection Order. People out
there told us it was something that would not work.
Q442 Mr Winnick: You accept that
are arguments as well for making it a criminal offence. Could
I ask you if there is a possibility when you monitor the outcome
of the Forced Marriage Act when it comes into force later this
year that the decision not to criminalise forced marriages will
be looked at again?
Mr Coaker: I think it would be
arrogant of me as the minister responsible to say if we introduced
a piece of legislation and it had the opposite effect to that
which it was supposed to have then we would not review it and
not keep it under review. We will of course look at the evidence.
We are going to monitor the outcome of the Forced Marriage Act.
The clear evidence to us at the time was that it would not help,
that it would actually have the opposite effect of what people
who proposed the criminalisation thought it would have. We will
keep it under review, but at the moment we have no plans to do
that.
Q443 Mrs Cryer: I suppose you are
aware that many women who have left the family home because of
domestic violence or have been thrown out of their home finish
up on the streets and frequently find their way to my office.
I have made good use of the domestic violence concession. Time
is of the essence. If they have not got indefinite leave to remain,
is there anything that you can do for such cases to speed up the
procedures so that they can get their indefinite leave to remain?
Would you be able to give stronger guidance to local authorities
on how to help such women?
Mr Coaker: The whole issue of
guidelines is really important. We are looking to strengthen guidelines
not just to local authorities but to the whole range of providers
and public service agencies in this area and then to ensure that
that is put into practice. In terms of people speeding up the
process for ILR, yes, we do need to do that, but the issue that
always comes to us is the no recourse to public funds with respect
to that. I can tell the Committee that we have listened to the
representations that we have had on that. Although final details
are to be worked out, in the very near future we will put together
a system, in consultation with our colleagues in DCLG and, if
not, we will pursue it ourselves, to ensure that where people
do receive a positive determination with respect to their ILR
status they will actually be able to apply for and receive housing
and living costs for that period up to the determination of their
ILR when, of course, if they are given that, they will be able
to apply for other benefits. That will be on the basis that that
money will be paid retrospectively, so it will be when their ILR
is determined. I hope that is good news. I know it is something
that people have asked for over a considerable period of time.
We have listened to that and I think that is another positive
move forward.
Q444 Mrs Cryer: Does the Home Office-commissioned
research into raising the age of sponsorship show that the risks
associated with raising the age to 21 are likely to be greater
than the benefits?
Mr Coaker: We have just done some
consultation on that. I have not seen the details of that because
it ended on 27 February and contributions are currently being
analysed. There are strong arguments for and against. Some people
see this as a positive way forward, as a way of preventing people
from being subject to abuse. It would protect them if it was 21
before they could sponsor a spouse. Others say that it does not
actually tackle the real issue, that it just disguises the issue
and postpones the issue, that if you are going to do something
about this then it is getting to the causes of it that is important.
Although it may appear to be something that will impact on it,
it will not prevent it. I have not seen the evidence from that
yet. As soon as we get that we can let the Committee have that,
but I have not seen it yet.
Chairman: We hope to publish our report
at the end of the Easter recess, so if you could let us have that
that would be very helpful.
Q445 Bob Russell: Do you accept that
male victims of violence in the home suffer disbelief and prejudice
from professionals and public services?
Mr Coaker: I think there is some
truth in that. The forced marriage figures showed that 15 per
cent of the cases were male. I do think there is an issue with
respect to domestic violence and men and forced marriage. I think
there is a cultural problem with respect to that. I think men
find it very difficult in some cases to come forward and report
that for fear of being regarded as not quite masculine enough.
I think there is a very real issue with regard to that. Obviously
the majority of people involved are women, but we have to accept
that there is a minority of men who are involved with this and
we need to change the culture with respect to that. It is not
just young men. I cannot remember the exact age, but the Forced
Marriage Unit had a man in his fifties who was the victim of a
forced marriage.
Q446 Bob Russell: Recognising there
is this problem, what is the Home Office doing to improve the
identification of the genuine male victims, encourage reporting,
and provide male-only support services?
Mr Coaker: I think we do need
to look at all of that. We have funded advice lines. There is
an advice line specifically for men which does not run 24 hours
but runs during office hours. There is a website that is available.
We have also supported an organisation called Broken Rainbow,
which is a gay and bisexual and transsexual advice line. So there
is work going on with respect to that. The key issue is the development
of services, but we will not identify men who are the victims
of domestic violence until they themselves feel confident in being
able to come forward and until we change the environment. One
of the ways that we are trying to do this is we have established
something we have called a men's coalition which brings together
a variety of men's health organisations and other organisations
and which is about challenging some of the stereotypes in this
area. I am very proud and privileged to be a male minister with
the lead for domestic violence. When I go out to different organisations
they think that says an awful lot because for far too long domestic
violence was often seen as a women's issue. This is a mainstream
issue for the whole of society.
Q447 Gwyn Prosser: Mr Coaker, as
you quite rightly said, we need to take an holistic approach to
these matters and not be so narrow about it. One of the areas
which we think is effective is the perpetrator programme. All
of the service areas have their programmes in place and that is
good news. The bad news is that they are wholly unresourced to
do the job they need to do. Will you make representations to your
colleagues in the Ministry of Justice and make sure that these
programmes are fully funded?
Mr Coaker: I have already made
representations about that. The perpetrator programmes did not
exist before. At least we have rolled those out now in every probation
area. That is a positive message. You are quite right to say that
there are not enough. There are waiting lists for those. My own
view is that we need to develop other alternatives as well as
the perpetrator programmes run through and by probation and this
is where the voluntary sector has such a vital role to play. What
can they provide in terms of helping deal with perpetrators? What
sorts of support can be made available through them? Sometimes
some of the most powerful ways of dealing with these issues are
actually things that are organised by the communities in those
areas. You are quite right to point out that we need to statutorily
and from Government ensure that the perpetrator programme through
the criminal justice system is there, but we also need to look
at what can be done in the third sector, the voluntary sector
or even the faith sector as well.
Q448 Mrs Dean: Minister, what can
the Department of Health do to engage and train GPs in routinely
enquiring about domestic violence and providing information on
support services?
Mr Coaker: This is an extremely
important question. Lots of manuals and guidance and all of those
sorts of things have gone out to different professionals. The
Department of Health has comprehensive training manuals, they
have handbooks, they have guidance that goes out, they make routine
enquiries of women in pregnancy and talk to them now very carefully
to see if there are any issues with respect to domestic violence.
They will have a violence and abuse programme. I think what is
key across the board is that we need to improve the monitoring
mechanisms that we have for all of our work and the response that
we have where we find that the monitoring tells us there is a
difficulty. There is a lot of work going on to improve it, but
we need to improve the monitoring. The area where I think there
is a weakness and there are pilots now that are established in
a number of accident and emergencies in the South-East is the
sharing of information between the health professionals, whether
it be in A&E or at the doctors' surgery, and other appropriate
professionals. We have been to see the Information Commissioner
about this and information which is shared on the basis of public
protection is information that can be shared providing it is done
properly. I think sometimes with data protection and all of these
other things people are frightened of it. We have got to drive
through this and say this is a public protection issue. If an
accident and emergency department has information which suggests
to them that there is the possibility of somebody having been
the victim of domestic violence then that information needs to
be shared. We are establishing protocols about that. We are trying
to support people doing that. We have the pilots in the South-East
which we expect to roll out across the country, but we need to
change people's mindset that you cannot share information as you
will be doing something illegal.
Q449 Mrs Dean: Would that involve
other departments such as STD clinics and hospital dentistry?
Mr Coaker: It involves the whole
area of work. With the rollout of MARACs that we are seeing, which
we announced recently to expand virtually across the whole country
by 2010/2011, we should see that improve. The sharing of information
is absolutely crucial to this area of work whether it be a hospital
dentist, an ordinary dentist, an A&E or a GP.
Q450 Chairman: Minister, thank you
very much for giving evidence today. We would like to stress our
concern as a Committee about the flow of information from other
departments to you as the chairman of the inter-ministerial committee
and we hope this will be addressed. If there is anything else
you would like to put before to us before we conclude, we would
be most grateful. Thank you very much for coming.
Mr Coaker: Thank you very much
for inviting me.
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