Mr.
Gibb: I want to raise one or two issues relating to some
of the Government amendments. On Government amendment No. 311, I heard
the Minister talk about the fact that paragraph 5 of schedule 3 to the
School Standards and Framework Act 1998 relates to grants made by the
Secretary of State to the governing body or the trust of a voluntary
aided school. Under new paragraph A30 of schedule 22 of the 1998 Act,
which the amendment inserts via schedule 4 of the Bill, the Secretary
of State may give notice that expenditure using grants made by the
Secretary of State will be included in the definition of publicly
funded land. What I cannot understand is why it is necessary to have
this in such a detailed schedule—it goes into the detail of
every conceivable type of land that is included in the
schedule—and why the land transfer procedure for some sorts of
land should be determined solely in terms of whether the Secretary of
State decides to issue a notice. Will the Minister say why she believes
that is necessary and why the power is necessary with all the different
methods in the
schedule? Amendments
Nos. 298 and 304 exempt land that is acquired by means of a grant under
schedule 32 of the 1998 Act by a voluntary school from the definition
of
publicly funded land under this section. Why do voluntary schools have
that exemption and other schools, such as foundation schools, do not?
If my understanding is right, can the Minister explain why there is a
difference? Jacqui
Smith: I made a specific point in my opening comments
about the six months’ notice that is required for the change of
regime and the fact that it would not be retrospective. It is also
necessary—this relates to the hon. Gentleman’s second
point—that we do not automatically capture all the grant
payments in the proposals made in the amendments. Some
programmes—for example, devolved formula capital—will
need to be excluded from the provisions that we are
making. I think that I
have answered both of the hon. Gentleman’s questions. If I find
subsequently that I have not done so, I will write to him and other
members of the Committee to ensure that they are
covered. Amendment
agreed to. Amendments
made: No. 282, in schedule 4, page 135, line 14, at end
insert— ‘(fa) any land
acquired, or enhanced in value, wholly or partly by means of any grant
made on or after1st April 2007 by the Secretary of State
under paragraph 5 of Schedule 3 (including that provision as applied by
any enactment) in relation to which notice is given in accordance with
paragraph
A30,'. No.
283, in schedule 4, page 135, line 25, leave out ‘7th June 2005'
and insert ‘the commencement of
this
sub-paragraph'. No.
284, in schedule 4, page 135, line 27, leave out ‘falling within
section 21(1)(a)' and
insert ‘established otherwise than
under this
Act'. No.
285, in schedule 4, page 140, line 46, at end
insert— ‘paragraph 5(4B)(d)
of this
Schedule;'. No.
286, in schedule 4, page 141, line 9, after ‘2006'
insert ‘(including that provision
as applied by any
enactment)'. No.
287, in schedule 4, page 141, line 19, after ‘day'
insert ‘other than a grant made on
or after 1st April 2007 under paragraph 5 of Schedule 3 (including that
provision as applied by any
enactment), (ea) any land
acquired, or enhanced in value, wholly or partly by means of any grant
made on or after1st April 2007 by the Secretary of State
under paragraph 5 of Schedule 3 (including that provision as applied by
any enactment) in relation to which notice is given in accordance with
paragraph
A30,'. No.
288, in schedule 4, page 141, line 32, at end
insert— ‘( ) But this
paragraph does not apply to any disposal
which— (a) is made by a
foundation body after the commencement of this sub-paragraph,
and (b) is a disposal to the
trustees of a foundation or foundation special school made on the
school leaving the group for which the foundation body acts and
becoming a school with a foundation established otherwise than under
this Act.'.
No. 289, in schedule 4, page
147, line 20, after ‘2006'
insert ‘(including that provision
as applied by any
enactment)'. No.
290, in schedule 4, page 147, leave out lines 23 and
24. No. 291, in
schedule 4, page 147, line 39, leave out second
‘or'. No. 292,
in schedule 4, page 147, line 43, at end
insert— ‘(j) any land
acquired, or enhanced in value, wholly or partly by means of any grant
made on or after1st April 2007 by the Secretary of State
under paragraph 5 of Schedule 3 (including that provision as applied by
any enactment) in relation to which notice is given in accordance with
paragraph A30, or (k) any land
acquired, or enhanced in value, wholly or partly with the proceeds of
disposal of any land acquired or enhanced in value as mentioned in
paragraph (j).'.—[Jacqui
Smith.]
Jacqui
Smith: I beg to move amendment No. 293, in schedule 4,
page 157, line 17, at end
insert— ‘( ) In determining
whether to make an application under sub-paragraph (1) for a transfer
order, a local education authority must have regard, in particular, to
any guidance given from time to time by the Secretary of
State.'.
The
Chairman: With this it will be convenientto
discuss the following: Government amendmentNo.
294. Amendment No.
226, in schedule 4, page 157,line 27, leave out ‘may'
and insert
‘shall'. Government
amendment No.
295. Amendment No.
227, in schedule 4, page 157,line 37, leave out
‘or'. Amendment
No. 228, in schedule 4, page 157,line 42, after
‘2006,', insert ‘or (iv) is
required by the local authority for any other purpose which the local
authority may show to the satisfaction of the adjudicator to be in the
local community
interest,'. Government
amendment No.
296.
Jacqui
Smith: An aim of this part of the Bill is to
empower a local authority to ask the schools adjudicator to make a
transfer order in respect of surplus publicly funded land held by a
governing body, foundation body or trustees of a foundation, voluntary
or foundation special school when the authority requires the land for
another school, for another of its education functions, or for
delivering children's
services. Amendments
Nos. 293 and 294 make it clear that before asking for such a transfer
order, the local authority must have regard to any guidance issued by
the Secretary of State. I have provided for hon. Members the
illustrative draft guidance, which we have already discussed in
part. We have set out
in the Bill the factors that the adjudicator will consider when
deciding to make a transfer order. They have been carefully considered
to balance a school's ownership of its own assets against the strategic
needs and duties of an authority. Amendments No. 295 and 296 describe
in some detail the circumstances in which an order may be made.
They include when the land is required for another school or educational
use or for delivering children’s services, so that the school's
land which has been acquired using public expenditure is still used for
the benefit of the children and young people of the area. I hope that
the Committee will accept those amendments. I will respond to other
amendments in the group if and when they are spoken
to.
4.45
pm
Mr.
Gibb: Amendments Nos. 295 and 296, to which the Minister
referred, alter the circumstances in which the adjudicator can make the
transfer order. At present, there are three purposes for which a local
authority can ask for land to be transferred: it is needed by a school
maintained or receiving assistance from a local authority; it is needed
for the exercise of the educational functions of a local authority; or
it is needed for the purposes of any of its education or
children’s services or under various sections of the Children
Act. The wording of
new sub-paragraph (5A), which the amendment would insert into paragraph
A26 of schedule 4, is slightly different from that of the second
purpose that I just quoted. It says that the land
“is otherwise required for the
purposes of the exercise of any of the functions of the
authority”. In other
words, it removes the word “educational” from the current
second purpose. The drafting seems to be very broad and vague, and
means that the use will not necessarily be limited to the educational
functions of the local authority. I should be grateful if the Minister
explained why a broader definition is to be included in the
schedule.
Jacqui
Smith: I hope that I can reassure the hon. Gentleman. The
new sub-paragraph is worded in that way without broadening the purposes
for which the transfer order would be made because in that case
“authority” means local education authority, so all its
functions must relate to education. The purposes that I spelled
out—that transfer be for the use of education or
children’s services—are the confined functions for which
we expect transfer orders to be made. We are not allowing the proposal
of transfer orders for, for example, the provision of a dustbin depot
or any other function of a local authority. I can give the hon.
Gentleman that reassurance.
Amendment agreed
to. Amendments
made: No. 294, in schedule 4, page 157, line 24, at end
insert— ‘( ) In relation to
the content of such an application, a local education authority must
have regard, in particular, to any guidance given from time to time by
the Secretary of
State.'. No.
295, in schedule 4, page 157, line 31, leave out from ‘purpose'
to end of line 42 and insert ‘is a
qualifying purpose,
and'. No.
296, in schedule 4, page 157, line 43, at end
insert— ‘(5A) For the
purposes of sub-paragraph (5)(c) the stated purpose is a qualifying
purpose if it falls within one or more of the following descriptions of
purpose—
(a) the land is required for the purposes of any
school or institution which is, or is to be, maintained by the
authority, or which they have power to
assist; (b) the land is
otherwise required for the purposes of the exercise of any of the
functions of the authority; (c)
the land is required for the provision of children's services by or on
behalf of the local authority who are that authority in the exercise of
any of the relevant functions of that local
authority. (5B) For the
purposes of sub-paragraph
(5A)(c)— “children's
services” are services provided for or in relation to any of the
following persons (whether or not they are also provided for or in
relation to any other
persons)— (d)
children; (e) persons aged 18
or 19; (f) persons over the age
of 19 who are receiving services under sections 23C to 24D of the
Children Act 1989; (g) persons
over the age of 19 but under the age of 25 who have a learning
difficulty, within the meaning of section 13 of the Learning and Skills
Act 2000, and are receiving services under that
Act; “relevant
functions” means the functions described in any of paragraphs
(a), (c), (d) or (e) of subsection (1) of section 121 of the Education
and Inspections Act
2006.'. No.
297, in schedule 4, page 158, line 28, at end
insert— ‘paragraph 28(2) of
Schedule 2 to the Education and Inspections Act 2006 (including that
provision as applied by any
enactment),'. No.
298, in schedule 4, page 158, line 41, after ‘Act'
insert ‘other than a grant paid
under such regulations to the governing body of a voluntary aided
school'. No.
299, in schedule 4, page 158, line 41, at end
insert— ‘(fa) land acquired
wholly or partly by means of any grant made on or after 1st April 2007
by the Secretary of State under paragraph 5 of Schedule 3 (including
that provision as applied by any enactment) in relation to which notice
is given in accordance with paragraph
A30,'. No.
300, in schedule 4, page 159, leave out lines 20to
22. No. 301, in
schedule 4, page 159, line 27, at end
insert— ‘paragraph 5(4B)(d)
of this
Schedule;'. No.
302, in schedule 4, page 159, line 36, after ‘2006'
insert ‘(including that provision
as applied by any
enactment)'. No.
303, in schedule 4, page 159, line 46, after ‘day'
insert ‘other than a grant made on
or after 1st April 2007 under paragraph 5 of Schedule 3 (including that
provision as applied by any
enactment)'. No.
304, in schedule 4, page 159, line 48, after ‘Act'
insert ‘other than a grant paid
under such regulations to the governing body of a voluntary aided
school'. No.
305, in schedule 4, page 159, line 48, at end
insert— ‘(fa) land acquired
wholly or partly by means of any grant made on or after 1st April 2007
by the Secretary of State under paragraph 5 of Schedule 3 (including
that provision as applied by any enactment) in relation to which notice
is given in accordance with paragraph A30,'.
No. 306, in schedule 4, page
160, line 44, after ‘2006'
insert ‘(including that provision
as applied by any
enactment)'. No.
307, in schedule 4, page 160, leave out lines 47 and
48. No. 308, in
schedule 4, page 161, line 10, after ‘Act'
insert ‘other than a grant paid
under such regulations to the governing body of a voluntary aided
school'. No.
309, in schedule 4, page 161, line 10, at end
insert— ‘(ga) land acquired
wholly or partly by means of any grant made on or after 1st April 2007
by the Secretary of State under paragraph 5 of Schedule 3 (including
that provision as applied by any enactment) in relation to which notice
is given in accordance with paragraph
A30,'. No.
310, in schedule 4, page 161, line 12, leave out ‘paragraph (f)
or (g)' and insert ‘any of
paragraphs (f) to
(ga)'. No.
311, in schedule 4, page 162, line 24, at end
insert— ‘Notice in relation
to grants under paragraph 5 of Schedule
3A30 (1) Where a grant is
made on or after 1st April 2007 by the Secretary of State under
paragraph 5 of Schedule 3 (including that provision as applied by any
enactment), the Secretary of State may within the relevant period give
the body or other persons to whom the grant is made notice
that— (a) any land
acquired, or enhanced in value, wholly or partly by means of the grant
is land falling within paragraph A1(1)(fa), A8(1)(ea) and A15(1)(j),
and (b) any land acquired
wholly or partly by means of the grant is land falling within paragraph
A27(1)(fa), A28(1)(fa) and
A29(1)(ga). (2) The
“relevant period” means the period of 6 months beginning
with the date upon which the grant is
made.”.'. No.
312, in schedule 4, page 163, line 28, leave out from ‘(1)(b)'
to end of line 29 and insert
‘— (a) for “Secretary
of State” substitute “appropriate authority”,
and (b) for sub-paragraphs (i)
and (ii)
substitute— “(i)
under section 19(1) requiring a foundation, voluntary or foundation
special school in Wales to be discontinued,
(ii) under section 32(1) requiring a foundation
special school in Wales to be discontinued,
(iii) under section 55(1) of the Education and
Inspections Act 2006 requiring a foundation, voluntary or foundation
special school in England to be discontinued, or
(iv) under section 16(1) of that Act requiring a
foundation special school in England to be
discontinued.”.'. No.
313, in schedule 4, page 163, line 34, after ‘A1(1)'
insert ‘other than land falling
within sub-paragraph
(2A)'. No.
314, in schedule 4, page 163, line 37, at end
insert— ‘( ) After
sub-paragraph (2)
insert— “(2A)
Land falls within this sub-paragraph if it
is— (a) land falling
within paragraph (fa) of paragraph A1(1) by virtue of being land
enhanced in value as mentioned in that paragraph,
or (b) land falling within
paragraph (h) of paragraph A1(1) by virtue of being land acquired, or
enhanced in
value, wholly or partly with the proceeds of disposal of any land
falling within paragraph (a)
above. (2B) If the school is in
England and the governing body dispose of any land falling within
sub-paragraph (2A) which is held by them for the purposes of the
school, paragraph A1 shall apply to
them.”.'. No.
315, in schedule 4, page 164, line 2, after ‘A8(1)'
insert ‘other than land falling
within sub-paragraph
(3A)'. No.
316, in schedule 4, page 164, line 6, at end
insert— ‘( ) After
sub-paragraph (3)
insert— “(3A)
Land falls within this sub-paragraph if it
is— (a) land falling
within paragraph (ea) of paragraph A8(1) by virtue of being land
enhanced in value as mentioned in that paragraph,
or (b) land falling within
paragraph (g) of paragraph A8(1) by virtue of being land acquired, or
enhanced in value, wholly or partly with the proceeds of disposal of
any land falling within paragraph (a)
above. (3B) If the school is in
England and the foundation body disposes of any land falling within
sub-paragraph (3A) which is held by it for the purposes of the schools
comprising the group, paragraph A8 shall apply to
it.”.'. No.
317, in schedule 4, page 164, line 18, at end
insert— ‘( ) After
sub-paragraph (4)
insert— “(4ZA)
Where the school is in England, the trustees of the school shall apply
to the appropriate authority for it to exercise its powers under
sub-paragraph (4B) in relation to any land falling within paragraph
A15(1), (2) or (3), other than land falling within sub-paragraph (4ZB),
which is held by the trustees for the purposes of the
school. (4ZB) Land falls within
this sub-paragraph if it
is— (a) land falling
within paragraph (j) of paragraph A15(1) by virtue of being land
enhanced in value as mentioned in that paragraph,
or (b) land falling within
paragraph (k) of paragraph A15(1) by virtue of being land acquired, or
enhanced in value, wholly or partly with the proceeds of disposal of
any land falling within paragraph (a)
above.”.'. No.
318, in schedule 4, page 164, line 19, leave out from ‘(4A)' to
end of line 26 and insert
‘— (a) after “Where
the school” insert “is in Wales and”,
and (b) for “Secretary
of State for him to exercise his” substitute “appropriate
authority for it to exercise
its”.'. No.
319, in schedule 4, page 164, line 27, at end
insert— ‘( ) after
“under sub-paragraph” insert “(4ZA)
or”,'. No.
320, in schedule 4, page 164, line 35, leave out from
‘appropriate;”,' to end of line 37 and
insert— ‘( ) in
paragraph (b) for the words from “for the purposes of
another” to the end substitute
“— (i) in the
case of a school in England, for the purposes of another foundation,
voluntary or foundation special school, or
(ii) in the case of a school in Wales, for the
purposes of another foundation or foundation special school or for the
purposes of a voluntary school,
direct the trustees to exercise that power in such
manner as the appropriate authority may
specify;”, ( ) in
paragraph (c) after “sub-paragraph” insert “(4ZA)
or, as the case may be,”,
and ( ) in paragraphs (c) and
(d) for “he”, wherever occurring, substitute “the
appropriate authority”.'.
No. 321, in schedule 4, page
164, line 38, after ‘(5)' insert
‘— (a) after
“(3)” insert “, (4ZA)”,
and'. No.
322, in schedule 4, page 164, line 42, leave out from ‘within'
to end of line 44 and insert ‘sub-paragraph (4ZB),
or'. No. 323, in
schedule 4, page 164, line 47, leave out from ‘paragraph' to end
of line 6 on page 165 and
insert ‘A15 shall apply to
them.”.'. No.
324, in schedule 4, page 165, line 19, after ‘(1)' insert
‘, (2)'. No.
325, in schedule 4, page 165, line 23, leave out from
‘paragraph' to end of line 30 and
insert ‘A15 shall apply to
them.”.'. No.
326, in schedule 4, page 167, line 18, leave out ‘(2) or
(3)(a),'. No. 327, in
schedule 4, page 169, line 17, at end
insert— ‘21A In Schedule 3
to SSFA 1998 (funding of foundation, voluntary and foundation special
schools), in paragraph 2, after sub-paragraph (7)
insert— “(7A) In
sub-paragraph (6)(b) the reference to proceeds of sale of other
premises does not include the proceeds of disposal of land to which
paragraph A2, A9 or A16 of Schedule 22
applies.”.'.—[Jacqui
Smith.] Schedule
4, as amended, agreed
to.
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