Mr.
Gibb: I listened carefully to the right hon. Lady’s
comments on my amendment, and I fully understand that the purpose of
the one-third rule is to enable a minority of governors, where the
majority of the governing body is controlled by the trust, to initiate
the process of removing the trust. The problem with giving a minority
such powers, as I said in speaking to the amendment, is that it creates
the potential for conflict. As the right hon. Lady knows, there is deep
ideological division in this country, in certain sections of society,
about education and the way in which it functions. It would be
unfortunate if the structure of the governing bodies almost invited
such political debate and involvement in the governing body of a
school. I am aware of
instances from the time, in the 1960s, when grammar schools were
abolished of people getting involved with schools simply with a view to
removing their grammar school status, and never being seen again once
comprehensive status had been introduced. It is to avoid activity of
that kind that I consider it important to remove the one-third element.
However, the point has been made, and I do not intend to press the
amendment to a Division. The issue has been highlighted and is on the
record. As to the
compensation issue, I am delighted that we agree that fair compensation
needs to be paid to foundations that have supplied assets. I take the
Minister’s technical point that because the amendment would
remove the requirement to make regulations, it would therefore remove
from the regulations all the other provisions that are important and
safeguard the making of payments.
The Minister might take my
point that statutory instruments can be amended easily, especially on a
negative resolution. A charity putting vast sums into a school, such as
are involved when land and buildings are given, would feel more
reassured if those assets were protected in primary legislation that
could not so easily be amended. It would also have much greater notice
of any amendment and would therefore feel more confident in
contributing assets. The issue has been aired effectively and the
Minister has been full and frank in her response, so I do not intend to
press the
amendment.
Mrs.
Dorries: The Minister’s reply has been detailed,
and I am reassured and educated by it. I beg to ask leave to withdraw
the
amendment. Amendment,
by leave,
withdrawn. Clause
23 ordered to stand part of the
Bill. Clauses
24 to 26 ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
Clause
27Abolition
of school organisation
committees Question
proposed, That the clause stand part of the
Bill.
Mr.
Gibb: This clause is very welcome because it abolishes
school organisation committees. Those committees were established by
this Government in section 24 of their first education Act, the School
Standards and Framework Act 1998, which
stated: “Each
local education authority in England shall establish a school
organisation committee for their
area.” The regulations
that accompanied the section stated that those committees must consist
of between one and seven members of the local education authority;
between one and seven nominated by the diocesan board of education for
the Church of England; between one and seven nominated by the local
Roman Catholic Bishop; between one and seven appointed by the Learning
and Skills Council; at least one member each of a governing body of a
primary school, a secondary school, a special school, a middle school,
a maintained nursery school and each category of school attended by at
least 5 per cent. of the area’s pupils; and up to seven
governors representing the interests of the
community. During the
Committee stage of that Bill, Estelle Morris, as she was before she
became Baroness Morris and a Labour rebel, in her capacity as
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Department for Education
and Employment, as the DFES was then
called—[Interruption.] Indeed, much has changed in eight
and a half years. She
said: “The
Government's underlying philosophy is that one of the unacceptable
aspects of the present system is that many decisions about local school
plans closures, expansions and so on are taken centrally in Westminster
by the Secretary of State. At present, about 300 proposals a year are
determined centrally...Therefore, our underlying principle is that
it is better if such decisions are taken at local
level.” She
continued: “When
we move on from that starting point...we have the challenge of
ensuring that all the bodies responsible for providing education
locally feel that their interests are guarded by the new structure.
That is why we are introducing a school organisation committee and an
adjudicator.” When probed
by Opposition Members, she
said: “To some
extent, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Members of the
school organisation committee will have a vested interest in making the
system work, as well as defending their own interest within the
committee.”—[Official Report, Standing Committee
A, 10 February 1998; c.
367.] If the proof of the
pudding was to be in the eating, I guess that the clause reveals the
Government’s judgment that it tasted rather
bad. The school
organisation committees have been a serious impediment to reform in
education, particularly important structural reform. In their important
research paper for Policy Exchange, James O’Shaughnessy and
Charlotte Leslie state on page
23: “The SOC is
made up of bodies that represent operators of schools within a given
area. There is usually no representation on these bodies of parents
groups, despite the exhortations of central government that their
wishes are paramount. The threat to existing providers of new entrants
into the system is
clear—they might attract pupils away from their own schools,
thereby representing a loss of income to those
schools.” There is within the SOC system
an inherent contradiction and a built-in block against useful proposals
and against anything, including school closures, that might alarm
existing vested interests within a school area. The types of people who
are appointed to the SOCs all seem to relate to the existing school
provision within an area, so it is inevitable that they will want to
maintain the status quo. This is therefore a very welcome clause. It
confirms—I hate to say it—some of the concerns raised by
my hon. Friend in 1998. Nevertheless, better that one sinner repenteth,
so we will support the clause this
afternoon.
Jacqui
Smith: As the hon. Gentleman has pointed out, the effect
of clause 27 is to abolish local school organisation committees, which
were established under the 1998 Act to ensure that decisions on changes
to schools were taken at a local level, whenever possible. As the hon.
Gentleman said, they included representatives of the local authority,
local church diocese, schools and the learning and skills council. I
should like to place on record my gratitude for the good work of
members of school organisation committees over the last six
years. As I suggested,
that change and the comments of my noble Friend Baroness Morris that
the hon. Gentleman quoted were in the context of a change from national
to local decision making. We have to remember that under the last
Conservative Government it was Ministers who took decisions about local
school organisation issues when objections were referred to them. What
was right about the School Standards and Framework Act was the way it
shifted that decision making from a national ministerial decision to
one made at a local level by local stakeholders.
The hon. Gentleman is also
right that we are now moving to the next stage of reform. We are in a
new era. I do not want to rehearse in detail some of our arguments and
discussions about the new role for local authorities and their new
powers and responsibilities, but I can say that the Bill introduces a
new relationship between the partners in education, in which local
authorities are the commissioners and quality assurers of provision,
rather than the direct
providers. The hon.
Gentleman is also right to a certain extent that, notwithstanding their
important and good work, school organisation committees tend to be made
up of providers in the local authority area. As the responsibility of
local authorities changes and, as we envisage it, moves further towards
them being the representative and champion of pupils and parents in an
area, it is appropriate that the decision making should move from that
school organisation committee to the local authority. The local
authority will put the interests not of providers but of parents and
pupils at the heart of decisions that it makes about local
schools. 2.15
pm Other measures
in the clause deal with other elements of the job of school
organisation committees which are no longer vested in them. There is no
longer a requirement for a school organisation plan to be agreed by the
school organisation committee, though
of course planning will continue within the local authority,
particularly in the context of the children and young people’s
plan. That aspect of the SOCs’ work no longer
exists. As hon.
Members are aware, and as we have discussed in relation to other
clauses in this part of the Bill, there is provision to safeguard local
stakeholders’ interests. We have made sure that dioceses and
learning and skills councils can ensure that proposals about which they
have concerns are referred to the adjudicator. That seems to me to be
an appropriate way for stakeholders to be
represented. To return
to the fundamental reason behind the arrangements, let me say that they
are about ensuring a continuing, balanced, consideration of proposals
within the context of a Bill that moves us to a more diverse and
dynamic system—a system that new providers and supporters of
education can enter. New schools can be established, and trusts can
come in to help support existing schools. With that framework, we think
that the school organisation committees, which represent the status
quo, are no longer necessary. The provisions for decision making in
part 2 of the Bill will result in a more appropriate, more democratic
and less bureaucratic system, while maintaining the necessary
protections. Question
put and agreed
to. Clause 27
ordered to stand part of the
Bill. Clause 28
ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
Schedule
3Amendments
relating to school
organisation
Jacqui
Smith: I beg to move amendment No. 279, in schedule 3,
page 124, line 35, leave out from ‘investigation)' to end of
line 36 and insert ‘in subsection
(5)— (a) omit paragraph (a) (which
relates to school organisation committees),
and (b) in paragraph (c), for
“that Act” substitute “the School Standards and
Framework Act
1998”.'
The
Chairman: With this it will be convenient to discuss
Government amendments Nos. 128, 280, 129 to 141, 104, 105 and 142 to
148.
Mr.
Hayes: On a point of order, Mr. Cook. There is some talk
of extending the hours of our sittings, Mr. Cook. In order to
continue our discussions in a more agreeable way, there may be some
advantage in us offering sojourn to places of refreshment if we are
going to continue late into the night. You and Mr. Chope may
wish to consider that and give us the opportunity to choose whether we
go to Fortnum’s, the Savoy or somewhere else, where we can
continue our discussions more convivially. That may be something you
want to consider when you have had a chance to discuss it with other
Committee
members.
The
Chairman: That is an interesting point of order, Mr.
Hayes, if you are offering to be the host. I see that the Minister has
taken some advice from the hon. Member for
Mid-Bedfordshire.
Sarah
Teather: On a point of order, Mr. Cook. We appear now to
be racing through the clauses, which is welcome. However, looking
ahead, I realise that later this afternoon we shall probably reach the
clauses relating to admissions. The Government promised to circulate
the draft code relating to that at some point, but have not done so.
Will you encourage the Government to do that, so that we may consider
the code when we get to the relevant
point?
The
Chairman: I am sure that the ministerial team will have
heard that point and will take it to heart and do their utmost to
deliver in a timely
fashion.
Jacqui
Smith: Further to that point of order, Mr. Cook.
I reassure Committee members that the code to which the hon. Lady
referred is at the moment winging its way to them. With respect to the
point of order made by the hon. Member for South Holland and The
Deepings, given that he raised it, it should probably be me who treats
him to tea at the Savoy or anywhere else he might
like.
The
Chairman: Order. Do I understand that in that case it
would be high
tea?
Mr.
Hayes: High tea for a high
Tory.
Jacqui
Smith: Indeed, and it would be extremely well
deserved. The
amendments are consequential to the new arrangements for small
organisation mechanisms proposed in part 2 of the Bill. I assure hon.
Members that they are technical. They do not contain much policy meat
for Committee members to get their teeth into; they simply dot the
i’s and cross the t’s to ensure that previous legislation
is updated as necessary. Therefore, I do not propose to take up too
much of the Committee’s time by going through the minutiae of
the entire group, because we have discussed the policies during debate
on the relevant
clauses. The new
framework has been developed to take account of local
authorities’ strategic role and to secure the creation of a more
diverse and dynamic system. The existing legislation needs to be
amended to take account of the new provisions for the establishment,
closure or alteration of
schools. Most of the
provisions will apply to England only. Therefore, references to changes
to school organisation in Wales, for example, should continue to use
existing provisions. Amendment No. 128 will update the Diocesan Boards
of Education Measure 1991 to say that consent from the board is
required for prescribed alterations to a school in England when they
are made under the new provisions in the Bill. For schools in Wales,
however, consent will continue to be required for changes made under
the School Standards and Framework Act 1998.
Amendment No. 131 makes a
similar distinction between different arrangements in England and Wales
in a section of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998, and
amendment No. 129 is a straightforward update of the Education Act
1996. Sections of that Act relating to the power to accept property on
trust for educational purposes will reflect that community
schools will now be established under the new arrangements in the Bill;
however, we have amended it as well so that if a local authority
receives a gift of property, the same provisions will apply for the
establishment of a community, special or nursery
school. Amendments
Nos. 134 and 138 to 141 will make similar updating amendments to the
School Standards and Framework Act 1998 so that it refers to the new
provisions to make alterations to schools rather than the previous
provisions. Amendment No. 135 will amend provisions in the School
Standards and Framework Act 1998 that set out an authority’s
duty to maintain certain schools. The duty will be subject to any
statutory provisions authorising the discontinuance of any such school.
Currently, the duty is subject to a school’s authorisation for
transfer to another authority or discontinuation under the School
Standards and Framework Act
provision. Amendment
No. 137 is essentially a tidying amendment that will remove redundant
legislation from the School Standards and Framework Act, which
originally allowed for the establishment of school organisation
committees and adjudicators in Wales. No such committees or
adjudicators have been established, as in Wales such decisions are
referred to the relevant Minister. Now that we are removing school
organisation committees in England, it seems sensible to repeal that
part of the 1998 Act. Amendment No. 279 is another consequential
amendment, this time to the Local Government Act 1974 to remove
references to school organisation
committees. Finally,
amendments Nos. 142 to 148 all make minor technical changes to the
school organisation repeal set out in schedule 18 of the Bill.
Amendments Nos. 130, 132, 133, 136, 280, 104 and 105 are purely
technical amendments to correct the current drafting of the Bill.
Having been given a flavour of the amendments, I hope that hon. Members
will feel able to support
them. Amendment
agreed
to. Amendments
made: No. 128, in schedule 3, page 125, line 11, at end
insert— ‘Diocesan Boards of
Education Measure 1991 (No.
2)3A In section 3 of the
Diocesan Boards of Education Measure 1991 (transactions for which
advice or consent of Board is required) in subsection
(1)— (a) for paragraphs
(a) and (b)
substitute— “(a)
publishing proposals for any prescribed alteration to the
school— (i) in the case
of a school in England, under section 18(3) of the Education and
Inspections Act 2006 (“the 2006 Act”),
or (ii) in the case of a school
in Wales, under section 28(2)(b) of the School Standards and Framework
Act 1998 (“the 1998 Act”)
(b) publishing proposals for the discontinuance of
the school— (i) in the
case of a school in England, under section 14(2) of the 2006 Act,
or (ii) in the case of a
school in Wales, under section 29(2) of the 1998
Act;”, (b) in
paragraphs (c) and (cc) for “that Act” substitute
“the 1998 Act”,
and (c) for paragraph (d)
substitute—
“(d) in the case of a school in Wales,
publishing proposals for changing the category of the school under
paragraph 2 or 3 of Schedule 8 to the 1998 Act;
or”. 3B (1) Section 7 of
the Diocesan Boards of Education Measure 1991 (powers of Board to give
directions to governing bodies of voluntary aided church schools) is
amended as follows. (2) In
subsection (1) for paragraphs (a) to (c)
substitute— “(a)
the making of any prescribed alteration to the
school— (i) in the case
of a school in England, under Part 2 of the Education and Inspections
Act 2006 (“the 2006 Act”), or
(ii) in the case of a school in Wales, under
Chapter 2 of Part 2 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998
(“the 1998 Act”), or
(b) the discontinuance of the
school— (i) in the case
of a school in England, under Part 2 of the 2006 Act or section 30 of
the 1998 Act, or (ii) in the
case of a school in Wales, under Chapter 2 of Part 2 of the 1998 Act,
or (c) in the case of a school
in Wales, changing the school's category in accordance with paragraph 2
or 3 of Schedule 8 to the 1998
Act,”. (3) In subsection
(1A), for “under paragraph 2 or 3 of Schedule 8 to that
Act” substitute “under section 18(3) of the 2006 Act or
paragraph 2 or 3 of Schedule 8 to the 1998
Act”. (4) In subsection
(3)— (a) in paragraph
(a), for “under section 28(2)(b) of the School Standards and
Framework Act 1998” substitute “under section 18(3) of
the 2006 Act or section 28(2)(b) of the 1998
Act”, (b) in paragraph
(b)— (i) at the
beginning insert “in the case of a school in Wales”,
and (ii) for “that
Act” substitute “the 1998 Act”,
and (c) for “the
provisions of that Act” substitute “the provisions of the
1998 Act and the 2006
Act”.'. No.
280, in schedule 3, page 126, line 3, leave out ‘(8)(a)' and
insert
‘(8)(c)'. No.
129, in schedule 3, page 126, line 15, at end
insert— 7A (1) Section 529 of EA
1996 (power to accept gifts on trust for educational purposes) is
amended as follows. (2) After
subsection (1)
insert— “(1A) Any
intention on the part of a local education authority in England that a
school should be vested in the authority as trustees shall be treated
for the purposes of sections 7, 9 and 10 of the Education and
Inspections Act 2006 as an intention to establish a new community
school, community special school or maintained nursery school (so that
proposals for that purpose shall be published in accordance with those
sections); and Schedule 2 to that Act (proposals for establishment or
discontinuance of schools in England) shall apply
accordingly.” (3)
In subsection (2)— (a)
after “local education authority” insert “in
Wales”, (b) omit
“(other than a nursery school or special school)”,
and (c) for the words from
“the purposes of” to the end substitute “for the
purposes of sections 28
and 31 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 as an intention to
establish a new community school, community special school or
maintained nursery school (so that proposals for that purpose shall be
published as required by those sections); and Schedule 6 to that Act
(statutory proposals concerning schools in Wales: procedure and
implementation) shall apply
accordingly”. (4) In
subsection (3)— (a)
after “subsection” insert “(1A) or”,
and (b) at the end insert
“, a community special school or a maintained nursery
school.”.'. No.
130, in schedule 3, page 126, line 16, leave out from beginning to
second “in” and
insert— ‘(1) Section 530 of
EA 1996 (compulsory purchase of land) is amended as
follows.'. No.
131, in schedule 3, page 126, line 19, at end
insert— ‘(3) In subsection
(3), for the words from “borne by them” to the end
substitute “borne by
them— (a) in the case of
an authority in England, under paragraph 7(1) of Schedule 7A to the
Learning and Skills Act 2000 (power to give assistance in relation to
carrying out of obligations under that Schedule) or under any provision
of regulations under section 22 of the Education and Inspections Act
2006 (implementation of proposals under section 18 of that Act) which
by virtue of subsection (7) of section 22 of that Act authorises a
local education authority to provide assistance to the governing body
of a voluntary aided school in connection with the implementation of
the obligations of the governing body under the regulations,
or (b) in the case of an
authority in Wales, under paragraph 18 of Schedule 6 to the School
Standards and Framework Act 1998 (power to give assistance to governing
body of voluntary aided school in carrying out statutory proposals)
(including that provision as applied by any
enactment).”.'. No.
132, in schedule 3, page 126, line 29, after ‘20' insert
‘of SSFA
1998'. No. 133, in
schedule 3, page 126, line 38, after ‘21' insert ‘of SSFA
1998'. No. 134, in
schedule 3, page 127, line 6, after ‘Wales”'
insert— ‘(ba) in paragraph
(h), after “his consent” insert “or to the
disposal of which paragraph A9 of Schedule 22 would
apply”,'. No.
135, in schedule 3, page 127, line 7, at end
insert— ‘11A In section 22
of SSFA 1998 (maintenance and other funding of schools) for subsection
(2) substitute—
“(2) Subsection (1) has effect subject to
any statutory provision authorising the discontinuance of a maintained
school or maintained nursery
school.”.'. No.
136, in schedule 3, page 127, line 8, after ‘25' insert
‘of SSFA 1998'.
No. 137, in schedule 3, page
127, line 10, leave out paragraph 13 and
insert— ‘13 Omit section 27
of SSFA 1998 (power to require committees or adjudicators for
Wales).' No.
138, in schedule 3, page 129, line 24, at end
insert— ‘22A (1) Section 79
of SSFA 1998 (stamp duty) is amended as follows.
(2) In subsection
(1)— (a) omit the word
“or” at the end of paragraph (b),
and (b) at the end of paragraph
(c) insert “or (d) any
regulations made under section 22 of the Education and Inspections Act
2006 by virtue of subsection (3)(b) of that
section.”. (3) In
subsection (3), for “subsection (1)” substitute
“subsection (1)(a) to
(c)”.'. No.
139, in schedule 3, page 129, line 24, at end
insert— ‘22B (1) Section 109
of SSFA 1998 (proposals by governing body of grammar school to end
selective admission arrangements) is amended as
follows. (2) In subsection
(2)— (a) for
“for the purposes of section 28” substitute “under
section 17 of the 2006 Act”,
and (b) for “that
section” substitute “section 18 of the 2006
Act”. (3) In subsection
(3)— (a) in paragraph
(a), for “section 28 or Schedule 6” substitute
“sections 18 to 22 of the 2006 Act or regulations under those
sections”, and (b) in
paragraph (b), for “section 28” substitute
“section 18 of the 2006
Act”. (4) In subsection
(4)— (a) for
“section 28” substitute “section 18 of the 2006
Act”, and (b) for
“paragraph 5 or 10 of Schedule 6” substitute
“regulations under section 22 of that
Act”. (5) After
subsection (5)
insert— “(6) In
this section “the 2006 Act” means the Education and
Inspections Act
2006.”.'. No.
140, in schedule 3, page 129, line 27, at end
insert— ‘23A In Schedule 3
to SSFA 1998 (funding of foundation, voluntary and foundation special
schools) in paragraph 2(2) for paragraph (a)
substitute— “(a)
apply in relation to the provision of any site or buildings
which— (i) in the case
of a school in England, the authority or the person by whom any
proposals were made are required to provide by virtue of Part 3 of
Schedule 2 to the Education and Inspections Act 2006 (provision of
premises in connection with proposals for establishment of school) or
by virtue of regulations under section 22 of that Act (implementation
of proposals for alteration of school),
or (ii) in the
case of a school in Wales, the authority or promoters are required to
provide by virtue of Part 3 of Schedule 6 (provision of premises in
connection with statutory proposals);
or”.'.
No. 141, in schedule 3, page
133, line 46, at end
insert— ‘39A In Schedule 1
to EA 2002 (incorporation and powers of governing body), in paragraph 5
(dissolution of governing body) for sub-paragraph (2)
substitute— “(2)
In this paragraph “the discontinuance date”
means— (a) in relation
to a school in England, whichever of the following is
relevant— (i) the date
on which proposals for discontinuing the school are implemented under
Part 3 of Schedule 2 to the Education and Inspections Act 2006 or under
Schedule 7 or 7A to the Learning and Skills Act
2000, (ii) the date on which
the school is discontinued under section 30 of the 1998 Act,
or (iii) the date specified in
a direction given under section 16(1) or 55(1) of the Education and
Inspections Act 2006; (b) in
relation to a school in Wales, whichever of the following is
relevant— (i) the date
on which proposals for discontinuing the school are implemented under
Part 3 of Schedule 6 to the 1998 Act or under Schedule 7 or 7A to the
Learning and Skills Act 2000,
(ii) the date on which the school is discontinued
under section 30 of the 1998 Act, or
(iii) the date specified in a direction given under
section 19(1) or 32(1) of the 1998 Act.”.'.—[Jacqui
Smith.] Schedule
3, as amended, agreed
to.
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