Sammy
Wilson: Most policies in Northern Ireland are subject to
equality impact assessments. Will the Minister tell us whether an
equality impact assessment has been carried out for the legislation on
foreign donations and what its outcome
was?
Mr.
Hanson: I am happy to confirm for the hon. Gentleman that
an equality assessment on the draft legislation was undertaken. I do
not have the details of the outcome before me, but I would not have
introduced the legislation if it was discriminatory in any way. I hope
that that satisfies
him.
Sammy
Wilson: Does the Minister accept that the section on
foreign donations will benefit exclusively nationalist and,
particularly, republican parties and therefore could not have met the
conditions in the equality impact
assessment.
Mr.
Hanson: No, I do not accept that. I believe that the ban
on foreign donations will occur, but, as was referred to by the hon.
Gentleman, we have made an exception for the special situation in
Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. We have allowed eligible
individuals and bodies that donate to Irish political parties to
continue to donate to parties in the
north. Let me put it
this way to the hon. Gentleman: I do not know what the 3 million people
who live in the Irish Republic will do with their donations—if
they wish to make any—and to which political parties in the
north they would make them. They might support the Ulster Unionist
party or the Democratic Unionist party in the Republic. They might
support the Social Democratic and Labour party or, indeed, Sinn Fein.
They might support a range of parties.
I cannot speak for the 3
million people in the Republic and their donating habits. The point is
that because of the special relationship and the Good Friday agreement,
we have maintained that position. We will come on to amendments
relating to it in later clauses, and I would prefer to discuss such
matters at that
stage. The Irish
Government themselves have indicated that they are looking at their own
political funding regime. They have no imminent plans to introduce such
proposals, but they are looking at the possibility. In the event of
such changes arising, and under clause 13 and other powers in the Bill,
we could reflect those changes in legislation by order, should we so
wish. Certainly, Northern Ireland Office officials are in discussion
with Irish Government officials about the joint objective of both
Governments, which is to ensure political transparency in donations and
that foreign donations from outside of the island of Ireland are
banned, as they are in the United
Kingdom.
The
Chairman: I have allowed the Minister to continue with
remarks that more properly relate to clause 15 and others, but I trust
that such remarks will not be repeated at length in subsequent
debate. Question
put and agreed
to. Clause 13
ordered to stand part of the
Bill.
Clause
14Part
4 of the 2000 act: the final disapplication
period
Lady
Hermon: I beg to move amendment No. 24, in clause 14, page
10, line 28, leave out subsection
(4).
The
Chairman: With this it will be convenient to discuss
amendment No. 25, in clause 14, page 10, line 34, leave out subsection
(5).
Lady
Hermon: I should make a declaration at the beginning of my
comments on anything to do with donations for political purposes or to
political parties in that I am a member of the Speaker’s
Committee on the Electoral Commission. In that capacity, I take, for
obvious reasons, a particular interest in any changes to legislation
that apply to political donations, loans and anything akin to them. My
views are my own entirely—the issue before us has not been
discussed at any length in the Speaker’s
Committee. With that
preface to my remarks, I shall speak to amendments Nos. 24 and 25. They
relate specifically to clause 14 of this
miscellaneous—extremely miscellaneous—provisions Bill and
the final disapplication period, which is defined
as “(a)
starting with the day on which this section comes into force,
and (b) ending with 31st
October 2007.” The
amendments would remove subsections (4) and (5) from the clause. I have
difficulty with what is meant by those subsections, although I am sure
that the Minister will clarify their meaning when he responds to my
proposals.
As drafted, clause 14(4) means
that section 54(2)(c) of the Political Parties, Elections and
Referendums Act 2000 will be
effective “in relation
to any donation received during the final disapplication period
by— (a) a Great Britain
party, or (b) a regulated donee
who is resident or carries on activities in Great
Britain, as if it referred to a
Great Britain party
only.” Speaking
personally, that is gobbledegook to the hon. Member for North Down. I
would be thrilled and delighted to be able to understand the
legislation. Lovely, the Minister is indicating that he wants to
intervene.
Excellent! 11.45
am
Mr.
Hanson: I shall try to assist the hon. Lady. In practical
terms, the amendments would allow Great Britain parties, regulated
donees and others to receive foreign donations from Northern Ireland
parties as a back-door route during the disapplication period, because
of the lack of regulation in Northern Ireland during that period. That
is the purpose of the
provisions.
Lady
Hermon: That is most helpful. So in clause 14 we are being
asked to approve back-door donations. Did I understand
correctly?
Mr.
Hanson: No, the purpose is to stop back-door
donations.
Lady
Hermon: It is just as well that the Minister clarified
that.
[Interruption.]
Lady
Hermon: The hon. Member for East Antrim is always very
agitated and interested in making comments, whether sedentary or not,
but I am sure that he will get his opportunity
shortly. The Minister
has now indicated that the effect of the clause is to stop back-door
donations to Great Britain parties, and I am delighted with that
assurance. I was particularly struck that, coincidentally, exactly a
week after Second Reading of the Bill on 13 March, the Lord Chancellor
made an important statement in the House of Lords about political
parties and funding, and about donations and loans in particular. He
indicated
that “The
Government intend to move amendments to the Electoral Administration
Bill, currently before this House, to make it compulsory for political
parties to disclose any loans they receive. This issue affects all
political
parties” —I
emphasise all political parties—and he
said “I have
today written to the leaders of all political parties represented at
Westminster, and to the Electoral Commission, seeking their views on
the elements of a reporting regime, including whether it should be
retrospective.” —[Official Report, House of Lords,
30 March 2006; Vol. 680, c.
12.]
Mr.
Hanson: I confirm that it is the Government’s
intention to introduce regulations to that effect in Northern
Ireland.
Lady
Hermon: The Minister is obviously in a good mood this
morning. He may not have been willing to insert the word
“criminal” before the word “offence”, but
he is now indicating that, when there is a mind to do something within
the Government, they can move very
quickly. On the
amendment, may I just test the Minister? The amendment tabled in my
name is intended to remove subsection (5) from clause 14, because it is
difficult to understand, and any member of the Committee may agree with
the hon. Member for North Down on that, not just the Minister. It
reads: “References
in Schedule 2A to the 1983 Act to a permissible donor falling within
section 54(2) are to be read, in relation to any donation received
during the final disapplication period by a candidate at an election in
Great Britain, as not including a Northern Ireland
party.” The
amendment is a probing one, because I need to be able to understand the
legislation that we are being asked to approve in the Bill. As it
stands, and even when read alongside the relevant legislation, it is
extremely difficult to understand. Will the Minister clarify the scope
of the paragraph? My other comments about donations will be taken in
connection with clause
15.
Mr.
Hanson: I hope that through my interventions on both
points, I have assured the hon. Lady. For the avoidance of any doubt,
however, subsections (4) and (5) of clause 14 introduce a ban on
Northern Ireland political parties in the disapplication period up
to 31 October 2010 from making donations to regulated donees
or candidates standing for election in Great Britain. In practical
terms, her amendments would allow GB parties, regulated donees and
candidates to use Northern Ireland parties as a back door through which
they could accept foreign donations during the period in which
donations were not as yet banned in Northern Ireland. Ours is a simple
method of ensuring that during the period when the Act is disapplied to
Northern Ireland, there is no back door by which mainland GB parties
can receive donations via Northern Ireland. That is the sole purpose of
those two subsections.
I hope that that satisfies the
hon. Lady. With regard to the statement that my right hon. Friend the
Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs made about loans, we
intend to ensure that, with specific modifications, Northern Ireland is
dealt with in exactly the same way as the United Kingdom. I shall
introduce appropriate amendments to deal with that matter at
an appropriate stage during our
considerations.
Lady
Hermon: I am most grateful to the Minister. That was a
helpful clarification, and I pay tribute to those who drafted the notes
to provide that clear explanation of those subsections. The Secretary
of State for Constitutional Affairs confirmed on 20 March that he had
written to the leaders of all political parties represented at
Westminster. Although five Sinn Fein Members do not physically take
their seats at Westminster, they receive money analogous to Short
money. Will the Minister confirm that the Secretary of State has
written to the president of Sinn Fein, the
hon. Member for Belfast, West (Mr. Adams), asking that party for its
views about openness in relation to loans?
Mr.
Hanson: I am sorry, but I missed the hon. Lady’s
point.
Lady
Hermon: I shall sum up for the Minister’s benefit.
I shall not question what that Secretary of State told the House of
Lords; I simply want it clarified. He said:
“I have today written
to the leaders of all political parties represented at
Westminster”.—[Official Report, House of Lords, 20
March 2006; Vol. 680, c.
12.] My point was that there
are technically five Sinn Fein Members and a political party known as
Sinn Fein represented at Westminster, but they do not physically take
their seats; so will the Minister intervene on the hon. Member for
North Down and assure her that the Secretary of State wrote to the
president of Sinn Fein, the hon. Member for Belfast, West, inviting him
to disclose the details of loans and donations to Sinn Fein, and say
whether those details should be
retrospective?
Mr.
Hanson: Not only did the Secretary of State for
Constitutional Affairs raise the matter, but my right hon. Friend the
Secretary of State for Northern Ireland wrote to political parties in
Northern Ireland and their leaders to ask them for their views on it.
They obviously included the hon. Member for Belfast, West, even though
he chooses not to take his seat in this place. Although he chooses not
to do so, he and his colleagues are still
elected.
Lady
Hermon: I am most grateful for that helpful intervention.
I happily beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave,
withdrawn.
Clause 14 ordered to stand
part of the Bill.
Clause
15Extension
of categories of permissible
donors
Mr.
Hanson: I beg to move amendment No. 14, in page 11, line
28, leave out ‘has' and insert ‘and “members
association”
have'. This is a
technical amendment, which corrects a drafting error. It ensures
consistency with the 2000 Act. I commend it to the Committee.
Amendment agreed
to.
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