Equality Bill [Lords]

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Standing Committee A

Thursday 8 December 2005

(Afternoon)

The Committee consisted of the following Members:

Chairmen: †Mr. Roger Gale, Janet Anderson

†Baird, Vera (Redcar) (Lab)

†Barlow, Ms Celia (Hove) (Lab)

†Blackman, Liz (Erewash) (Lab)

†Brokenshire, James (Hornchurch) (Con)

†Brown, Lyn (West Ham) (Lab)

Campbell, Mr. Gregory (East Londonderry) (DUP)

†Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit (Gloucester) (Lab)

†Evennett, Mr. David (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con)

†Follett, Barbara (Stevenage) (Lab)

†Gidley, Sandra (Romsey) (LD)

Goggins, Paul (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department)

Grieve, Mr. Dominic (Beaconsfield) (Con)

†Harris, Dr. Evan (Oxford, West and Abingdon) (LD)

†James, Mrs. Siân C. (Swansea, East) (Lab)

†Laing, Mrs. Eleanor (Epping Forest) (Con)

†McCarthy-Fry, Sarah (Portsmouth, North) (Lab)

Miller, Mrs. Maria (Basingstoke) (Con)

†Munn, Meg (Minister for Women and Equality)

†Seabeck, Alison (Plymouth, Devonport) (Lab)

†Ussher, Kitty (Burnley) (Lab)

†Williams, Hywel (Caernarfon) (PC)

Geoffrey Farrar, Emily Commander, Committee Clerks

†attended the Committee

[Mr. Roger Gale in the Chair]

Equality Bill [Lords]

Clause 82

&c. Question pr

General duty to promote equality, oposed [this day], That the clause stand part of the Bill.

1 pm

Question again proposed.

The Minister for Women and Equality (Meg Munn): Welcome back, Mr. Gale. I was mid-paragraph, or even mid-sentence, so I shall go back to the beginning of that paragraph to create some consistency.

Creating a truly responsive public service means ensuring that public authorities are fully aware of the differing needs of their staff, customers or end-users, and building in robust mechanisms for them to respond to such needs at every level and in every aspect of their functions. At a higher level, we see that as a vital component of the culture change in the public sector.

Clause 82 introduces a new section 76A in the Sex Discrimination Act 1975, which provides for a public sector duty to promote gender equality. The clause imposes a general statutory duty, as distinct from clause 83, which provides powers for the Secretary of State to impose specific duties on public authorities to assist them in achieving the general duty.

In October, the Government issued a consultation document ''Advancing Equality for Men and Women: Government proposals to introduce a public sector duty to promote gender equality''—a snappy title—on those specific duties, requesting comments by 12 January 2006. A copy has been placed in the Library. The clause was amended in another place to bring an explicit reference to harassment into subsection (1). That took place on the back of the recent amendment of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 through the implementation of the equal treatment amendment directive. The new provision will require all public authorities to have due regard to the need to eliminate unlawful sex discrimination and harassment when carrying out their functions, and to promote equality of opportunity between men and women.

The general duty also ensures protection against contraventions or breaches to the terms of contractual pay and benefits as legislated for in the Equal Pay Act 1970. As the Committee is no doubt well aware, the gender pay gap still shows disadvantages for working women.

The gender duty, which we intend to come into effect from 1 April 2007, will apply to any person who carries out a public function. That definition is deliberately wide and accords with similar definitions utilised in the general duties for both race and disability equality. The duty will apply to easily
 
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recognisable public bodies such as Departments, local authorities and national health service trusts. Private sector bodies that provide services on behalf of a public authority, such as running a prison, also fall within the scope of the gender duty.

Private sector bodies are covered by the gender duty only in relation to areas of work that constitute a public function. For example, it will apply to a private contractor to the extent that he provides security services to a prison but not in relation to any of his services provided for customers or businesses in the private sector. Therefore, the duty will not apply to private contractors who do not carry out public functions.

We recognise that this is a complex area where careful guidance will be needed to clarify how and when bodies are subject to the duty. It is part of the current public consultation exercise. Subsections (3) and (4) of proposed new section 76A list various exceptions in the form of public authorities which need not comply with the duty and functions to which the duty does not apply. These exceptions are similar to those provided in respect of the duties on race and disability equality.

Broadly speaking, the duty will not apply to bodies that make law in Great Britain, including the General Synod, or to the intelligence services. Neither will it apply to court proceedings or proceedings in Parliament, even though in the case of the latter it will apply, for example, to the parliamentary authorities who employ Commons and Lords catering and cleaning staff, the Libraries and so on.

Mrs. Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): I make a small point. I wonder why in clause 82(3)(c) there is a reference to the Scottish Parliament, when in clauses 51 and 81, where the exceptions are similar to those in clause 82, there is no mention of the Scottish Parliament.

Meg Munn: If the hon. Lady will allow me to continue, we will get a full answer to that shortly. It is an important point.

The exceptions of which I spoke—in relation to Parliament, for example—which preserve the full discretion of our law-making and security institutions, are justified. Subsection (2) of clause 83 amends the 1975 Act to make it necessary for the Secretary of State to consult the commission before making an order to add to the list of exceptions. Although it would be unusual, and certainly undesirable, for the Secretary of State not to make full use of the expertise and experience of the commission in this respect, the purpose of the requirement is to provide complete certainty that the commission's voice will be heard. Our proposals have been warmly welcomed. They constitute a vital leap in the field of gender equality and ensure that there is increasing confidence that public services will meet the differing needs of both men and women, and that all will benefit. I have explained those matters in detail, because I want the Committee to be clear about the importance of the public sector gender duty.

On the specific point raised by the hon. Lady, clauses 51 and 81 are not about making specific laws,
 
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but about public functions. The reason why the specification is in this clause is to do with the Scottish Parliament being in a position to make laws in the way that we do. If any further clarification on that is required, I am sure that we can provide it.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 82 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 83

Specific duties

Amendment proposed: No. 145, in clause 83, page 51, line 10, at end insert—

'(1A) The Secretary of State shall by order impose on a person to whom the duty in section 76A (1) applies, or in so far as that duty applies to a person, a duty which the Secretary of State thinks will ensure a better performance of the duty under section 76A (1) in respect of functions related to education.'.—[Vera Baird.]

The Chairman: With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 146, in clause 83, page 51, line 11, leave out 'subsection (1)' and insert 'subsections (1) and (2)'.

No. 147, in clause 83, page 51, line 15, leave out 'subsection (1)' and insert 'subsections (1) and (2)'.

No. 148, in clause 83, page 51, line 18, leave out 'subsection (1)' and insert 'subsections (1) and (2)'.

No. 149, in clause 83, page 51, line 21, leave out 'subsection (1)' and insert 'subsections (1) and (2)'.

No. 150, in clause 83, page 51, line 24, after 'section 76B (1)', insert 'or section 76B (2)'.

Meg Munn: I shall to speak to all the amendments in one block. I thank my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Redcar (Vera Baird) for tabling them and therefore for allowing a discussion on these issues.

I am aware of the concerns of many people, including the teaching unions, about the fact that not all educational institutions might be covered by the specific duties under the gender duty. I should like to make it clear that it has always been our position that all public authorities, including educational institutions such as schools, colleges and universities, are covered by the general duty.

The duty requires public authorities to have due regard to the need to eliminate discrimination and harassment and to promote equality of opportunity between women and men. However, when we came to launch the consultation document on the specific duties, on 4 October, we stated that we were giving

''further consideration to the extent to which it would be appropriate for the specific duties to apply to schools, colleges and universities.''

That further consideration was to address a concern that the Department for Education and Skills originally had about whether the requirements of the specific duties would be inappropriate in the light of the policy framework known as the new relationship with schools and the understandable desire to limit bureaucratic burdens on all educational institutions. The same considerations apply regarding the disability duty introduced in the Disability Discrimination Act 2005 and its application to schools. Since then, the Department for Education and Skills has agreed that
 
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the disability duty should also apply to educational bodies, subject to a light-touch approach being taken.

Since the launch of the consultation document, a series of round-table discussions are under way, in collaboration with the Equal Opportunities Commission. Those discussions have led to growing recognition of the case for the specific duties applying to schools and other educational institutions. I am also pleased to say that my right hon. Friend the Minister for Schools has confirmed that she agrees, in principle, to extending the specific duties to education on the understanding that our officials continue to work together to ensure that appropriate arrangements for different education bodies are agreed, and that the relevant regulations and supporting guidance on the way in which the specific duties will apply are light touch, flexible and relevant to the realities of life in school and at other levels of education. That approach is entirely reasonable: as we made clear in the consultation document, our aim for the gender duty is to focus on outcomes rather than on imposing burdensome processes.

I am also pleased that the EOC intends to produce sector-specific guidance for the particular situations of different levels of education. It is important to respond to the different ways in which institutions operate, and their different needs, and to help them implement their obligations effectively. As hon. Members will be aware, we are still in the consultation period on our specific duties, the closing date being 12 January. Afterwards we will need to analyse the responses carefully in order to publish a Government response to consultation three months after the closing date. The response will clarify our plans for the regulations for the specific duties and confirm how we intend the specific duties to apply in respect of educational institutions. I hope that that is sufficiently reassuring and invite my hon. and learned Friend to withdraw her amendment.

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Prepared 8 December 2005