| Horserace Betting and Olympic Lottery Bill
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Mr. Hawkins: I am grateful to the Minister, who has been generous not only in giving way, but in responding in detail to my questions. However, he has not covered one point. Can the research studies that he and his officials have done, as well as those from other sources to which he has had access, be made available to the other parties in the House? It would be helpful, as the debate goes on, if we could read those documents. Mr. Caborn: The answer is yes. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we meet regularly and receive information regularly. I shall ensure that an item is put on the agenda of the next meeting of Ministers and Opposition spokespersons, and we will go through that. Mr. Hawkins: We have had a good debate and I am glad that several Back-Bench Labour Members participated, along with the Minister, the hon. Member for Bath and me, because that has enabled us to go through some wider lottery issues. Having had this lengthy debate, we should be able to take some subsequent groups more quickly. I shall not press the matter to a Division today , but that is not from lack of faith in the arguments. It is because, according to the rules under which we operate, it would be better not to divide the Committee to leave scope for revisiting the issue. However, the Minister has been tremendously helpful in confirming that there would be a way, as Conservative Members had hoped, to launch a game without breaching the IOC rules. Like my noble Friend Lord Moynihan, who has much longer experience than I of the Olympics and dealing with the IOC, I remain of the view that such a game would increase the size of the cake. The Minister has been very frank and helpful in saying that that is a judgment call. He and the Government made a judgment, but we would make a different one. We believe that an Olympic lottery game launched to coincide with the Athens Olympics and Paralympics would bring in money for sport. Then, if necessary, it could be relaunched with extra games or modifications when, as we hope, the UK wins the bid. That would increase the size of the cake, and grass-roots sport would benefit. It is a mistake to think that grass-roots sport does not benefit from what helps the elite sportsmen and sportswomen and Paralympic athletes. One reason that young people in particular get involved in sports is that they are inspired by their sporting heroes. I did a great deal of competitive swimming when I was younger and I was much inspired by the fact that the captain of my swimming club, Brian Brinkley, led the British Olympic swimming team at the 1972 Munich Olympics. Three members of my club were also in that squad. I was not good enough to get into the Great Britain squad, but I did swim against Scotland and Wales. Column Number: 107 Young people in every new generation need such inspiration. An Olympic lottery game that coincides with the Olympics would inspire many people. Many more would play a specific, dedicated Olympic lottery game. Whenever it starts—whether this summer to coincide with the 2004 games, as we hope, or in 2005—we will be able to see the figures. Until then, the studies that the Minister will kindly share with us remain only informed guesswork, or assessments. As he put it, they are judgment calls. We shall return to the matter on Report and in another place, where my noble Friend Lord Moynihan will, no doubt, deploy further arguments. However, at this stage, we look forward to studying the papers that the Minister will give us, as they will inform future debate. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
3.30 pmQuestion proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill. Mr. Hawkins: I promised that I had only a small point to raise on the clause stand part debate, as you, Mr. Illsley, generously allowed a wide-ranging debate on amendment No. 57. I want to probe the Government's intentions in relation to subsection (4)(a) and (b). The Bill says:
I shall understand if the Minister tells us that it is too early to say what the variations and timing might be, but I wanted to flag up the matter now. Otherwise, we would allow the provision to be introduced on the nod without even exploring that point. I was slightly puzzled by the phraseology about variation. If he can help us on that small point today, I should be grateful. Mr. Caborn: In the time-honoured way, I suppose that in Yorkshire I could bullshit my way through this, but I shall not do that. I am sorry, I should not have said that—it was unparliamentary language. This is an important question and I shall give the hon. Gentleman a considered answer later in our proceedings. Mr. Hawkins: I am grateful to the Minister for indicating that he will write to me and other members of the Committee when he has a detailed answer. I am sorry to have put him on the spot, but I wanted to flag the matter up, as I was slightly puzzled. Question put and agreed to. Clause 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill. The Chairman: Order. Before we come to clause 22, I should say that we have made inquiries of the Deliverer of the Vote, who advises me that Departments are not obliged to lay regulatory impact assessments in the Vote Office. Indeed, many Departments do not do so; it would appear that it is a decision for the individual Department. I shall refer the matter to the Chairman of Ways and Means to see Column Number: 108 whether it would be possible to have uniformity, because the present procedure is clearly unsatisfactory.Mr. Hawkins: On a point of order, Mr. Illsley. I am grateful to you for that message. Only five minutes ago, my pager went off to say that the Vote Office had, at 3.25 pm, managed to get a copy of the regulatory impact assessment. I have been helped by my hon. Friend the Member for South-East Cambridgeshire, whose copy I have been borrowing. Since the Committee rose earlier it has taken three or four hours for the Vote Office to get a copy. As the Clerk to the Vote Office said, many Departments supply the documents , but the DCMS and one or two others do not do so, so it would be helpful to all hon. Members if there were uniformity. I am grateful to you, Mr. Illsley, for saying that you will take the matter further.
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| ©Parliamentary copyright 2004 | Prepared 22 January 2004 |
