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Standing Committee E
Thursday 9 January 2003
(Morning)
[Mr. Roger Gale in the Chair]
8.55 am
The Chairman: Before we start, I have a housekeeping—literally, in this case—announcement to make about accommodation. The powers that be have decided that the Hunting Bill is of such great importance that it takes precedence over the future of the nation's entire communications industry. On that basis, we are compelled to remain in this Room for the duration or our Committee, because the Hunting Bill will be discussed in Committee Room 14 for longer than we shall be in here.
That being so, we have examined other possibilities. The genius who designed Portcullis House has apparently configured all the major Committee rooms there in a manner that is entirely suited to Select Committees, but not remotely suited to the convenient operation of a Standing Committee, so we cannot use Portcullis House.
I shall therefore reiterate what I said the other day. I do not think that at this time on a Thursday we are likely to have a crowded Gallery, but if the situation becomes difficult, I propose to allow Hansard staff awaiting the collection of notes to use the Press Gallery. There is a precedent for that: Thomas Hansard was the first reporter allowed into the House of Commons. I have informed the Officers of the House of my proposal.
I am also willing—if it becomes necessary—to rope off that bit of the Room that allows people direct access from the Door without having to come through the Committee. I shall make that space available only to House of Commons pass holders working specifically for members of the Committee. That means that if hon. Members' secretaries, advisers or other persons need access without having to wait for a place in the Public Gallery, four places will be available for them. That is the best that we can do, but I shall raise the entire issue at the next meeting of the Chairmen's Panel.
Mr. Andrew Lansley (South Cambridgeshire): On a point of order, Mr. Gale. According to our programme resolution, we are due to discuss clause 193, which deals with the BBC and Ofcom, on Tuesday morning. The Government have stated repeatedly, and in their response to the Joint Committee, that they will make available a draft of the new agreement with the BBC for consideration alongside the relevant provisions of the Bill. I might have missed something, but I have not seen such a draft. Have you received any intimation from the Government that it will be available? We should receive it today if it is to have an impact on the tabling of amendments for Tuesday.
The Chairman: The Chair always takes the view that it is desirable that hon. Members are given as much
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information as possible, to facilitate deliberations. Having said that, I have been given no notice of any such paper being available now. The provision of Government papers is a matter for the Government, not for me, but having heard that point of order, I am sure that the Minister has taken note of what the hon. Gentleman said.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield): Further to that point of order, Mr. Gale. If the information is not made available, will you consider deferring discussion of the relevant clauses until we have received sufficient information to table amendments?
The Chairman: No. The order of business has been determined and I propose to adhere to it. The Minister has heard what the hon. Gentlemen have said. If he can, I am sure that he will respond positively. Clause 147
General functions of OFCOM in relation to radio spectrum
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Mr. John Whittingdale (Maldon and East Chelmsford): Given that this is the first clause in the part of the Bill that deals with spectrum use, it might be appropriate to say a few words about the main issue that we will address. Clause 147 is obviously the prime underlying clause that will determine all Ofcom's activities when it comes to exercise its responsibilities for the management of spectrum.
I cannot resist the temptation to quote from the report of the Joint Committee on the Bill, which, on examining these provisions, said:
''We have found these some of the most difficult provisions to examine for several reasons. First, the provisions seek to give effect not only to policy proposals in the White Paper and requirements of the EC Directives but also to some proposals in the independent review of radio spectrum management issued by Professor Martin Cave . . . but we have had to conduct our inquiry in ignorance of the Government's response to that review.''
Of course, since the Joint Committee conducted its inquiry, the Government have published a response to Professor Martin Cave. However, the Vote Office denies the existence of that response, and although the Library accepts that it exists, I was told that the cupboard that contained it was locked, and when the cupboard was at last opened, it was discovered that the relevant document had been removed. I am therefore not much better off than the Joint Committee when it comes to taking account of the Government's response, although I think that the Bill itself constitutes a response.
The Joint Committee report went on:
''Second, the provisions on spectrum use and management are an exemplar of the wider problem of a Bill that proceeds by amending earlier Acts, requiring those seeking to understand the provisions to navigate through a thicket of previous enactments.''
Thirdly, and finally on that subject, it says that
''spectrum management depends for its success on a number of technical considerations relating, for example, to interference management on which we do not purport to have any expertise.''
I probably speak for a number of Opposition Members when I say amen to that. The Joint
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Committee is essentially saying that the provisions that we are discussing are very complicated. None the less, we will do our best, because they are terribly important.
In many ways, everything that Ofcom will do results from the fact that there are limits on the amount of spectrum available. That is justification for intervention and regulation by Government, for television companies being subject to restrictions on ownership and content, and for the management of telecommunications. Almost everything that the Bill covers flows from the fact that that spectrum is limited and that there is, therefore, a need for the state to intervene and control how it is used.
I cannot resist telling the Committee that it was in Chelmsford, which I have the great pleasure to represent, that the first radio broadcast was made by Guglielmo Marconi in 1920. The Marconi name is important in Chelmsford, although it has had its ups and downs in recent times. Nevertheless, we are proud of the fact that Chelmsford is the birthplace of British broadcasting. That first radio broadcast was made on 15 June 1920, and was of a concert by Dame Nellie Melba.
In those days, the issue of spectrum scarcity did not arise. There was a huge amount of spectrum that nobody was doing anything with until Nellie Melba was broadcast across the airwaves—there was no shortage of the stuff. However, in the past 80 or so years, ever more uses have been found for spectrum. That has led to steadily growing congestion and to debate on the best use of spectrum and the allocation of frequencies for different purposes.
Michael Fabricant: I always hesitate to correct the Front-Bench spokesman—that is probably why I remain on the Back Benches—but my hon. Friend is wrong to say that there was a considerable amount of spare spectrum available in 1920. He should read the excellent history of broadcasting by Asa Briggs, who was the vice-chancellor of Sussex university, where I took my masters degree.
Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby): He was provost of Worcester college, Oxford, as well.
Michael Fabricant: Indeed he was. In that book, Briggs wrote about the criticism made in the past by Morse code users about the amount of bandwidth used for voice broadcasts. Much of the spectrum that is now available—in the gigahertz region, as well as in the megahertz region—was not available at that time.
The Chairman: Order. At the end of the sitting of this Committee, I intend to make a small award for the longest intervention, and the hon. Gentleman is in danger of breaking his own record.
I do not want to intervene in the debate, but as I am on my feet, I will say that I think that the first radio broadcast was from Brownsea island in Poole harbour to the Isle of Wight.
Mr. Whittingdale: I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) for his remarks which, although lengthy, were informative.
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What he said proves that the debate has been going on for longer than I had thought. I had the pleasure of sitting next to Lord Briggs at the Booker prize dinner not so long ago, and I would not dare to question anything that he has written, as he has great authority. However, I do not think that what has been said reduces the importance of my point, which is that the matters with which we are dealing with in this section of the Bill, and to which the clause primarily relates, have become steadily more complicated to administer over the past few decades.
I am sure that the Minister will be happy to join me in paying tribute to the Radiocommunications Agency. Of the five bodies that are being brought together to form Ofcom, the Radiocommunications Agency is in many ways the one that gets the least attention. Yet it is also the one that employs the most people: its staff comprise the majority of the staff that are going to Ofcom. In general the agency has succeeded in carrying out its functions extremely efficiently. Britain is regarded as a leader in the development of radio spectrum management techniques. The Bill will introduce several new aspects to that endeavour, and they will be examined with considerable interest overseas.
Every time a new technology develops—they seem to arrive with ever-increasing speed—new pressure will be put on existing users of radio spectrum, and new and more difficult issues will be raised for those who manage it. That is of huge importance, not only because modern life depends to an increasing extent on telecommunications and broadcasting, but because some users of spectrum are vital to national security, such as the Ministry of Defence, which is one of the biggest users of spectrum.
The emergency services are completely dependant on reliable communications that are not subject to interference. Interference is a vital aspect of the work of the Radiocommunications Agency, which is soon to be transferred to Ofcom, but we will talk about that later. Furthermore, as hon. Members of all parties know, the House of Commons would now be almost impossible to operate if our pager systems did not work efficiently. In some respects, it could be argued that the House of Commons would operate rather better without them, but they have become an indispensable part of the modern politician's life.
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