Communications Bill

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Standing Committee E

Tuesday 10 December 2002

(Morning)

Mr. Roger Gale in the Chair]

Communications Bill

10.30 am

The Chairman: Good morning. Welcome to what I am sure will be a fairly lengthy but harmonious and productive series of debates. Before we commence, I shall mention a few housekeeping matters. So long as I am in the Chair, hon. Members have permission to remove their jackets, if they wish to do so in this weather. On accommodation, I am advised that no other Room is available this morning, but we are negotiating to move to a slightly larger Room. The Chairman does not address the Public Gallery because we do not recognise it, but hon. Members may wish to inform friends and guests that we hope that we will be able to accommodate more people in future.

I should like formally to tell the Committee that the Programming Sub-Committee met last night and came up with the programme motion before us. I made it plain at the meeting—and I have discussed the matter with Mr. Atkinson—that, should it be necessary, I will reconvene the sub-committee as its Chairman. That may not prove necessary, but hon. Members on both sides of the House have agreed that we should have that level of flexibility.

The Minister for Tourism, Film and Broadcasting (Dr. Kim Howells): I beg to move,

That—

(1) during proceedings on the Communications Bill (in addition to its first meeting at half-past Ten o'clock on Tuesday 10th December 2002) the Standing Committee do meet—

(a) on Tuesday 10th December 2002 at half-past Four o'clock;

(b) on Thursday 12th December 2002 at five minutes to Nine o'clock and at half-past Two o'clock;

(c) on Tuesday 17th December 2002 at half past Ten o'clock and at half-past Four o'clock;

(d) on Thursday 19th December 2002 at five minutes to Nine o'clock;

(e) on Tuesday 7th January 2003 at half-past Four o'clock; and

(f) thereafter on Tuesdays and Thursdays at five minutes to Nine o'clock and at half-past Two o'clock;

(2) the proceedings to be taken on the sittings shall be as shown in the second column of the Table below and shall be taken in the order so shown;

(3) the proceedings which under paragraph (2) are to be taken on any sitting shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the time specified in the third column of the Table;

(4) paragraph (2) does not prevent proceedings being taken (in the order shown in the second column of the Table) at any earlier sitting than that provided for under paragraph (2) if previous proceedings have already been concluded.

TABLE
Sitting	Proceedings	Time for conclusion of proceedings
1st	Clauses 1 and 2, Schedule 1, Clauses 3 to 26, Schedule 2 and Clause 27	—
2nd	1 and 2, Schedule 1, Clauses 3 to 26, Schedule 2 and Clause 27 (so far as not previously concluded)	—
3rd	1 and 2, Schedule 1, Clauses 3 to 26, Schedule 2 and Clause 27 (so far as not previously concluded)	11.25 am
4th	28 to 59 and Clauses 61 to 68	—
5th	28 to 59 and Clauses 61 to 68 (so far as not previously concluded)	1 pm
6th	69 and 70, Clauses 73 to 102, Schedule 3, Clauses 103 to 114, Schedule 4 and Clauses 115 to 146	—
7th	69 and 70, Clauses 73 to 102, Schedule 3, Clauses 103 to 114, Schedule 4 and Clauses 115 to 146 (so far as not previously concluded)	—
8th	69 and 70, Clauses 73 to 102, Schedule 3, Clauses 103 to 114, Schedule 4 and Clauses 115 to 146 (so far as not previously concluded)	7 pm
9th	147 to 152, Clause 154, Schedule 5, Clauses 155 to 157, Clauses 159 to 169, Clauses 173 to 175, Schedule 6, Clauses 176 and 177, Schedule 7, Clauses 178 to 187, Schedule 8 and Clauses 188 to 192	—
10th	147 to 152, Clause 154, Schedule 5, Clauses 155 to 157, Clauses 159 to 169, Clauses 173 to 175, Schedule 6, Clauses 176 and 177, Schedule 7, Clauses 178 to 187, Schedule 8 and Clauses 188 to 192 (so far as not previously concluded)	5 pm
11th	193 and 194, Schedule 9, Clauses 195 to 214, Schedule 10, Clauses 215 to 237, Clause 153, Clauses 170 to 172 and Clause 238	—
12th	193 and 194, Schedule 9, Clauses 195 to 214, Schedule 10, Clauses 215 to 237, Clause 153, Clauses 170 to 172 and Clause 238 (so far as not previously concluded)	—
13th	193 and 194, Schedule 9, Clauses 195 to 214, Schedule 10, Clauses 215 to 237, Clause 153, Clauses 170 to 172 and Clause 238 (so far as not previously concluded)	11.25 am
14th	239 to 263, Clause 60, Clauses 71 and 72, Clauses 264 to 275	—
15th	239 to 263, Clause 60, Clauses 71 and 72, Clauses 264 to 275 (so far as not previously concluded)	—
16th	239 to 263, Clause 60, Clauses 71 and 72, Clauses 264 to 275 (so far as not previously concluded)	5 pm
17th	276 to 284, Schedule 11, Clauses 285 to 326, Schedule 12, Clauses 327 to 333, Schedule 13 and Clause 334	—
18th	276 to 284, Schedule 11, Clauses 285 to 326, Schedule 12, Clauses 327 to 333, Schedule 13 and Clause 334 (so far as not previously concluded)	—
19th	276 to 284, Schedule 11, Clauses 285 to 326, Schedule 12, Clauses 327 to 333, Schedule 13 and Clause 334 (so far as not previously concluded)	11.25 am
20th	335 to 337, Schedule 14, Clauses 338 to 346, Schedule 15, Clauses 347 to 354	—
21st	335 to 337, Schedule 14, Clauses 338 to 346, Schedule 15, Clauses 347 to 354 (so far as not previously concluded)	—
22nd	335 to 337, Schedule 14, Clauses 338 to 346, Schedule 15, Clauses 347 to 354 (so far as not previously concluded)	5 pm
23rd	355 to 375 and Schedule 16	—
24th	355 to 375 and Schedule 16 (so far as not previously concluded)
25th	376 to 386, Clause 158, Clauses 387 to 391, Schedules 17 to 19, Clauses 392 to 395, New Clauses, New Schedules and remaining proceedings on the Bill	—
26th	376 to 386, Clause 158, Clauses 387 to 391, Schedules 17 to 19, Clauses 392 to 395, New Clauses, New Schedules and remaining proceedings on the Bill (so far as not previously concluded)

Thank you, Mr. Gale. I welcome you and your co-Chairman, Mr. Atkinson, to the Committee. I am grateful for the opportunity to debate the Bill with Committee members. I hope that it will be useful, and I am sure that hon. Members will make constructive progress. However, if we do not, I know from previous experience that you can be firm to the point of ruthlessness in driving debates forward, Mr. Gale. I welcome that.

The proposed programme motion was discussed at the Programming Sub-Committee yesterday, and I am pleased to say that there was general agreement on it at that meeting. The end date of 6 February will allow us 26 sittings to consider the Bill and any new clauses or schedules that might be proposed by amendment. The Government will table several amendments but will aim to give the Committee good notice of them. We will provide a written explanation of the nature and effect of each amendment when it has been tabled.

The 26 sittings should provide more than enough time for proper scrutiny of the Bill. We will, of course, work hard to examine the Bill thoroughly and carefully. I hope that we will be focused and consensual in our work, and I am sure that we will be extremely constructive in our approach, and will therefore make your job easy, Mr. Gale. The programme motion proposes that the provisions of the Bill be considered in order, with a few exceptions for reasons of sense that have been agreed by the Programming Sub-Committee. I hope that Committee members will agree that the proposals constitute a sensible and reasonable way in which to proceed, and I ask them to support the resolution.

Mr. John Whittingdale (Maldon and East Chelmsford): I join the Minister in welcoming you to the Chair, Mr. Gale. The imminent prospect of Christmas pales into insignificance compared with the anticipation that Conservative Members feel at the prospect spending the next seven to eight weeks considering the Bill under your chairmanship and that of Mr. Atkinson.

It is a particular pleasure that you and Mr. Atkinson should be in the Chair, not because both of you are political colleagues of mine—I realise that that is entirely put to one side while you are occupying that Chair, Mr. Gale—but because the two of you are veterans of the last time that we debated some of the issues raised in the Bill, when we considered the Broadcasting Act 1996. Many might regret that you and Mr. Atkinson are in the Chair for this Committee, because you will not be able to express any views on the contents of the Bill. However, there are perhaps one or two organisations that are relieved that you, Mr. Gale, are not able to express observations on the contents of the Bill. However, in the case of the organisation that I am especially thinking of, it may be

Column Number: 006

that you and Mr. Atkinson effectively cancel each other out.

I am sure that every Committee member will agree that this is an enormous Bill in many respects. Its sheer physical size—running to two volumes, 395 clauses, and any number of schedules—is an indication that it has vast scope and covers an enormous part of our economy. Its consequences are likely to be profound and long term. It is six years since we last examined these issues and, even then, many of us felt that we would need to return to them. The pace of technological change is such that developments in these sectors happen quickly and there is a real danger that legislation becomes rapidly out of date.

For that reason, it is extremely important that we get the Bill right. We should try to ensure that it is sufficiently flexible to take account of change. I suspect that, back in 1996, none of us imagined what the broadcasting environment or the telecommunications sector would look like today. Most of the 1996 Bill was concerned with establishing digital terrestrial television, which has come and not quite gone. It has not gone, but it is certainly very different from the type of project for which we created the conditions in 1996. That demonstrates how hard it is to predict how the sector will develop, which is why we must try to ensure that the Bill will, at least, create a framework that is capable of taking account of unforeseen developments.

Clearly, the Bill has already been subject to a lot of scrutiny. It has been through several different stages. We had a communications White Paper that the Government published and to which organisations and individuals responded, and, in the last session we had the paving Bill to establish Ofcom—the Office of Communications. Some aspects of that Bill will be covered again in our consideration of this one. The House has already had a chance to debate the bringing together of the regulators into a single umbrella regulator and some of the issues that arise from that.

In the last Session, the Government published a draft Bill that was scrutinised by the Joint Committee on the Draft Communications Bill, which I am sure that we all welcome as a useful exercise that has saved us time. Undoubtedly, it cleared up one or two points and improved the Bill by making it more technically coherent. Although the Government did not accept the Joint Committee's recommendations in some key areas, in large part, the recommendations were accepted. Therefore, I am sure that all of us welcome the exercise and hope that the Government undertake similar ones for other Bills that could be improved with draft scrutiny. The other Bill for which the Minister is responsible is the Licensing Bill, which we look forward to receiving later this year. I suspect that that might also have been improved had it undergone the same pre-legislative scrutiny process.

 

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Prepared 10 December 2002