| Health (Wales) Bill
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Mr. Touhig: We have decided that Wales needs an independent body that can provide information and impartial advice on public health issues. There is currently no equivalent body that can provide such independent advice. The status of the Wales Centre for Health will enable it to draw on academic and public sector expertise and different public and professional interests to work together. It will also support professional training in public health, including joint training between different sectors and professional disciplines. Column Number: 058
5.30 pmThe Assembly has identified the need for a body with suitable standing and expertise, which can act as an advocate for public health at the national level. That has been the aim of health policy in Wales since the issue of ''Better Health, Better Wales'' in 1998. The centre will play an important role in advising the Assembly, as well as public agencies and voluntary organisations. The statutory basis for the Wales Centre for Health will ensure its legal independence and establish its role as an impartial advocate for public health in partnership with all sectors. The restructuring of the NHS underlines the relevance and importance of the part that the centre will play in addressing the long-standing legacy of ill health in Wales. The centre will be a health service body. It will not be a servant or agent of the Crown or the National Assembly for Wales. It will function at local, regional, all-Wales, United Kingdom and international levels. That is the ambition and status we have in mind for it. The amendment would provide that a number of places would be reserved on this body for nominees of community health councils. Like the previous amendment, it reserves a block of places for a group, which is contrary to the way in which we are trying to develop the openness of the health service in Wales. The amendment would reduce the ability of the Assembly to determine the overall composition and balance of membership of the centre. It is the Assembly's intention that members of the centre should be appointed for their expertise and experience. Surely that ought to be the only criterion. They should be drawn from the statutory, voluntary and academic centres. Chris Grayling: One of the great tensions within the NHS at the moment is between the academic view at the centre and the practical needs of communities. An awful lot of major health care issues are being significantly shaped by the royal colleges' textbooks—by the leading members of the profession—without reference to the implications of those decisions for the delivery of local services. Does the Minister not think that having a balance between that top level, with its undoubted expertise, and representatives of the services on the ground would provide an effective means of reconciling those different demands? Mr. Touhig: The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. We want the Wales Centre for Health to be as broadly based as possible, but to draw on all possible expertise. I am reluctant to start reserving blocks of places for groups, whether they are broadly described as having some sort of vested interest, albeit an admirable interest so far as CHCs are concerned. Mr. Roger Williams: Will the Minister explain the role of the centre on a UK and international basis? I understand that it may provide information and knowledge that would helpful to Wales, but does he expect that it will disseminate knowledge on a greater basis than just throughout Wales? Mr. Touhig: The work of the centre will be posted on its website, so there will be access across the planet to the work and research that it is doing. We need Column Number: 059 hope, aspiration and vision that the centre will make a wide contribution across a whole range of issues. The hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans) and my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, North spoke of AIDS and so on, and the centre may well do some work on that problem. I do have that hope and ambition for it.I remind Opposition Members that we undertook extensive public scrutiny on the Bill before we bringing it forward. That does not take away from hon. Members the right to seek to amend it in Committee, but no one who was consulted asked that a block of places should be reserved for a particular group. Wales Centre for Health members will be recruited by the same process—and under the Nolan principles—that apply to the community health councils, and the process will be open, transparent and accountable. Nothing will be hidden. As part of the recruitment drive, people will be able to look on the Assembly website for guidance on how to become members of the Wales Centre for Health. It is important that we should make the process open, transparent and accessible, so that everyone who feels that they can make a contribution can apply. However, we want to take the proposal forward without setting a number of places aside for a particular group or any vested interest group. We think that that is the best way to push it forward. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will consider withdrawing the amendment. Mr. Evans: I share with the Minister the same hopes and aspirations for the Wales Centre for Health. The hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire asked whether it was intended that the centre should consult with other UK bodies, or even more widely. I am reassured to hear that part of its research, perhaps into AIDS, will not be a Wales-only thing, or even a UK-only thing; it should be much wider than that. The implications of AIDS for Africa are huge and immense. We look on aghast at the problems being faced on that continent, which is being ravaged by AIDS. Anything that the Wales Centre for Health can do to help produce programmes that may spread even into Africa would be welcomed by every member of the Committee; indeed, we would be proud of its work. I asked about the internet and I am reassured by the Minister's answer. He said that the centre would have a website that could be accessed by all interested groups, wherever they happened to be, so long as they had access to the internet. I am grateful for that confirmation. Like the Minister, we want the centre to be independent. However, we want at least some part of it to be more independent of the Assembly than it would be under the Bill, which is the reason for the amendment. It is a probing amendment to allow us to press the Government on whether there are any means of ensuring that the centre is independent of the Assembly. Although the Minister assured us that the Nolan committee appointments procedure would be followed, that may change. It is not included in the Bill; I cannot see the word ''Nolan'' there. What Column Number: 060 assurances do we have that that procedure will always be followed? We in Parliament are placing a huge amount of trust in the Welsh Assembly and its Executive.Mr. Touhig: I accept and value the hon. Gentleman's comments. I should have stressed earlier that the Assembly has agreed a code of practice for recruitment to all such organisations. That can be changed only by a majority vote in the Assembly. I hope that he will accept that reassurance, because it would require all-party support to make such a change. Mr. Evans: I am grateful to the Minister. I know how much more difficult it is for any one party to have overall control of the Welsh Assembly. Even if a party wished to go down that route, I hope that there would always be an element of independence that would resist such a move. We want the Wales Centre for Health to be manned by people who are appointed for their expertise and experience, as it will be dealing with many wide-ranging areas of health promotion in Wales. However, I am sure that he will not blame us if we look for worst-case scenarios and ways of ensuring that the Bill is as watertight as we can make it. The Minister has given us certain assurances. The suggestions that we have made may be reconsidered in the other place, but I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
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| ©Parliamentary copyright 2002 | Prepared 10 December 2002 |
