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House of Commons
Session 2000-01
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Minutes of Proceedings


 

WEDNESDAY 6 DECEMBER 2000

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen Mr Mike Gapes
Dr Julian Lewis Laura Moffatt

The Committee deliberated.

Ordered, That Strangers be admitted during the examination of witnesses unless the Committee otherwise orders.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Committee do inquire into the Six-Nation Framework Agreement.–(The Chairman.)

Armed Forces Personnel Issues: Mr John Spellar, a Member of the House, Minister of State for the Armed Forces, and Air Vice-Marshal Malcolm Pledger, Deputy Chief of Defence Staff (Personnel), were examined.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 10 January at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 10 JANUARY 2001

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock Mr Stephen Hepburn
Dr Julian Lewis Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

Resolved, That the Chairman do write to the Minister for the Armed Forces in connection with the controversy in the media concerning Depleted Uranium.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence on the Ministry of Defence's 1999/2000 Performance Report.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence from the Secretary of State for Defence on European Security and Defence.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence from the Chief of the Defence Staff on 1 March at Three o'clock.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Committee do visit the Defence Aviation Research Agency HQ at St Athan, Glamorgan on 7-8 February.–(The Chairman.)
Resolved, That the Committee do visit Hereford on 13-14 March.–(The Chairman.)

Six-Nation Framework Agreement: Mr David Gould, Deputy Chief of Defence Procurement, and Mr Tony Pawson, Director General Export Services, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 10 January at Five o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 10 JANUARY 2001

The Defence, Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees met concurrently.

The following members of the Defence Committee were present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Bruce George

Mr Peter Viggers
The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr David Chidgey
Mr Ted Rowlands

Sir John Stanley
Dr Phyllis Starkey
The following members of the International Development Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Piara S Khabra
Tess Kingham

Mr Andrew Rowe
Mr Tony Worthington
The following members of the Trade and Industry Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Roger Berry
Mr Christopher Chope

Mr Martin O'Neill
Mr Ted Rowlands was called to the Chair.

The Committees deliberated.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 17 January at Ten o'clock.
   

WEDNESDAY 17 JANUARY 2001

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

Resolved, That the Chairman and one member of staff attend a conference of Chairmen of EU parliamentary defence committees, in Stockholm, on 12-13 February 2001.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Committee do seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the said visit.–(The Chairman.)

Ministry of Defence Annual Reporting Cycle: Mr Kevin Tebbit, CMG, Permanent Secretary, Mr Colin Balmer, Principal Finance Officer, Mr Nick Witney, Director General (Equipment) and Mr David Gould, Deputy Chief of Defence Procurement, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 24 January at half past Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 24 JANUARY 2001

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence from the Chief Executive of the Defence Aviation and Repair Agency on 14 February 2001.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence from the Minister of State for Defence Procurement, Rt Hon Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean, on 28 February 2001 on the draft Defence Science and Technology Laboratory Trading Fund Order 2001.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Committee do commission a research paper from the Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology on the current state of scientific opinion on the risks to human health from Depleted Uranium (DU) munitions, and on cost-effective alternatives to DU ammunition.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That Professor Gerry Rubin be permitted to submit his memorandum on Armed Forces Personnel Issues to the Select Committee on the Armed Forces Bill.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Chairman and Clerk do carry forward a proposal to appoint a Committee Specialist.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Chairman do write to the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts in connection with that Committee's Report on the acceptance into service of the Chinook Mark 2 helicopter.–(The Chairman.)

Draft Special Report [Annual Report of the Committee for Session 1999–2000], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 70 read and agreed to.

Annexes A to D agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the First Special Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Several papers were ordered to be appended to the Special Report.

Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Fourteenth Report from the Committee of Session 1999-2000: Lessons of Kosovo] brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Second Special Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered that the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 7 February at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 7 FEBRUARY 2001

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Mike Gapes
Dr Julian Lewis Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood Laura Moffatt

The Committee deliberated.

Draft Report [The Six-Nation Framework Agreement], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 42 read and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the First Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (select committee (reports)) be applied to the Report.

Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

The Committee further deliberated.

Ministry of Defence Annual Reporting Cycle: Rt Hon Geoffrey Hoon, a Member of the House, Secretary of State, Mr Kevin Tebbit CMG, Permanent Secretary, and Mr Richard Hatfield CBE, Policy Director, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 14 February at Nine o'clock.
   

WEDNESDAY 14 FEBRUARY 2001

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

Draft Report [The Strategic Defence Review: Policy for People], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 178 read and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Second Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (select committee (reports)) be applied to the Report.

Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

The Committee further deliberated.

Defence Aviation Repair Agency: Mr Stephen Hill OBE, Chief Executive, Mr David Rutherford, Finance Director, Mr Bernard Galton, Human Resources Director, Defence Aviation Repair Agency, Mr John Oughton, Deputy Head, and Mr Nick Evans Director General, Finance and Planning, Defence Logistics Organisation, were examined.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 28 February at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 28 FEBRUARY 2001

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock Mr Stephen Hepburn
Laura Moffatt Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

The Draft Defence Science and Technology Laboratories Trading Fund Order 2001: Rt Hon Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean, Minister for Defence Procurement, Sir John Chisholm, Chief Executive, Mr Bill Clifford, Managing Director, Security Division, Defence Evaluation and Research Agency, and Mr Terence Jagger, Head of DERA Partnering Team, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

[Adjourned till Thursday 2 March at Three o'clock.
   

THURSDAY 2 MARCH 2001

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

The Appointment of the new Chief of the Defence Staff: Admiral Sir Michael Boyce, GCB, OBE, was examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 6 March at Five o'clock.

TUESDAY 6 MARCH 2001

The Defence, Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees met concurrently.

The following members of the Defence Committee were present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Bruce George
Mr Harry Cohen

Mr Peter Viggers
The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):
Dr Norman A Godman
Sir John Stanley

Mr Ted Rowlands
Dr Phyllis Starkey
The following members of the International Development Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Ann Clwyd
Mr Tony Colman
Tess Kingham

Mr Piara S Khabra
Mr Andrew Rowe

The following members of the Trade and Industry Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Christopher Chope

Mr Bob Laxton
Mr Ted Rowlands was called to the Chair.

The Committees deliberated.

The Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees withdrew.

Mr Bruce George was called to the Chair.

Draft Report [Strategic Export Controls: Annual Report for 1999 and Parliamentary Prior Scrutiny], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 72 read and agreed to.

The letter from the Chairman of the Quadripartite Committee to the Foreign Secretary of 12 January 2001 was ordered to be appended to the Report.

Resolved, That the report be the Third Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (Select committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.

Several papers were ordered to be appended to the Minutes of Evidence.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 7 March at Eleven o'clock.


WEDNESDAY 7 MARCH 2001

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

Draft Report [The Draft Defence Aviation Repair Agency Trading Fund Order 2001], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 48 read and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Fifth Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (select committee (reports)) be applied to the Report.

Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

The Committee further deliberated.

Draft Report [The Defence Science and Technology Laboratory Trading Fund Order 2001], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 11 read and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Fifth Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (select committee (reports)) be applied to the Report.

Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 28 March at Four o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 28 MARCH 2001

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Committee's First Report: The Six-Nation Framework Agreement], proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read a first and second time, and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Third Special Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 4 April at half-past Ten o'clock.
   

WEDNESDAY 4 APRIL 2001

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock Dr Julian Lewis
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence on Wednesday 2 May from the Chief of Defence Procurement, Sir Robert Walmsley KCB, on major procurement projects.–(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence on Wednesday 9 May from the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Dr Lewis Moonie, a Member of this House, on Gulf Veterans' illnesses and depleted uranium.–(The Chairman.)

Draft Report [The Strategic Defence Review: The Reserve Forces], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 52 read and agreed to.

Annex agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Sixth Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (select committee (reports)) be applied to the Report.

Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

The Committee further deliberated.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 25 April at Ten o'clock.
   

WEDNESDAY 25 APRIL 2001

[Morning sitting]

The Defence, Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees met concurrently.

The following members of the Defence Committee were present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen

Mr Bruce George
Mr Peter Viggers
The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Ted Rowlands

Dr Phyllis Starkey
The following members of the International Development Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Piara S Khabra
Tess Kingham

Mr Andrew Rowe
Mr Tony Worthington
The following members of the Trade and Industry Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Roger Berry
Mr Christopher Chope

Mr Martin O'Neill
Mr Ted Rowlands was called to the Chair.

The Committees deliberated.

The Draft Export Control and Non-Proliferation Bill: Mr Ian Davis, Arms and Security Programme Manager, Saferworld, Sarah Meek, Light Weapons Programme Manager, International Alert, Julia Saunders, Policy Adviser, Oxfam, and Mr Michael Crowley, Senior Analyst, BASIC, were examined.

The Draft Export Control and Non-Proliferation Bill: Major-General Alan, Sharman, Director General, and Mr Brinsley Salzmaan, Exports Director, of the Defence Manufacturers' Association, and Mr Faourk Saeed, Commercial Services Manager, Thales Defence Ltd, Vice Chairman and Mr Mike McLaughlin, Head of Government Relations, Rolls-Royce plc, Member of the Executive Committee, British Defence Manufacturers Export Licensing Group, were examined.

[Adjourned till this day at twenty minutes to Four o'clock

   

WEDNESDAY 25 APRIL 2001

[Afternoon sitting]

The Defence, Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees met concurrently.

The following members of the Defence Committee were present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Bruce George

Mr Peter Viggers
The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Dr Norman Godman
Mr Ted Rowlands

Sir John Stanley
Dr Phyllis Starkey
The following members of the International Development Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Ann Clwyd
Mr Tony Colman
Mr Piara S Khabra

Mr Andrew Rowe
Mr Bowen Wells
Mr Tony Worthington
The following members of the Trade and Industry Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Roger Berry
Mr Christopher Chope

Mr Martin O'Neill
Mr Ted Rowlands was called to the Chair.

The Committees deliberated.

The Draft Export Control and Non-Proliferation Bill: Professor Roderick Floud, President Elect, and Provost of London Guildhall University, Dr Andrew Tilbrook, Imperial College Business Gateway and Mr Nicholas Bohm, Universities UK, were examined.

The Draft Export Control and Non-Proliferation Bill: Rt Hon Lord Scott of Foscote, a Member of the House of Lords, and Ms Presiley Baxendale QC, were examined.

The Draft Export Control and Non-Proliferation Bill: Rt Hon Stephen Byers, a Member of the House, Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, was examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 1 May at Five o'clock.
   

TUESDAY 1 MAY

The Defence, Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees met concurrently.

The following members of the Defence Committee were present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Bruce George
Laura Moffatt

Mr Peter Viggers
The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Dr Norman A Godman
Sir John Stanley

Mr Ted Rowlands
Dr Phyllis Starkey
The following members of the International Development Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Ann Clwyd
Mr Tony Colman
Tess Kingham

Mr Piara S Khabra
Mr Andrew Rowe
The following members of the Trade and Industry Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

Mr Christopher Chope
Mr Bob Laxton

Mr Martin O'Neill

Mr Ted Rowlands was called to the Chair.

The Committees deliberated.

Members of the Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees withdrew.

Mr Bruce George was called to the Chair.

Draft Report [Draft Export Control and Non-Proliferation Bill], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 119 read and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Seventh Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No.134 (Select committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.

[Adjourned till tomorrow at Ten o'clock.


WEDNESDAY 2 MAY 2001

[Morning sitting]

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Mike Gapes Mr Stephen Hepburn
Dr Julian Lewis Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

Major Procurement Projects: Sir Robert Walmsley KCB, Chief of Defence Procurement, and Vice-Admiral Sir Jeremy Blackham, KCB, Deputy Chief of Defence Staff (Equipment and Capability), Ministry of Defence, were examined.

[Adjourned till this day at half-past Four o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 2 MAY 2001

[Afternoon sitting]

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Mike Gapes Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Second Report from the Committee of Session 2000-01: The Strategic Defence Review: Policy for People] brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Fourth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered that the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Resolved, That the Ministry of Defence have permission to publish the memorandum submitted to the Committee on Gulf Veterans' Illnesses on its own website.–(The Chairman.)   

Draft Report [The MoD's Annual Reporting Cycle 2000-01] proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 116 read and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Eighth Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (select committee (reports)) be applied to the Report.

Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 9 May at Five o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 9 MAY 2001

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Mike Gapes Dr Julian Lewis
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Fourth Report from the Committee: The Draft Defence Aviation Repair Agency Trading Fund Order 2001] brought up, read a first and second time, and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Fifth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Fifth Report from the Committee: The Draft Science and Technology Laboratory Trading Fund Order 2001] brought up, read a first and second time, and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Sixth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Draft Report [Major Procurement Projects] proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 9 read and agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Ninth Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the report to the House.

Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

Draft Special Report [Annual Report of the Committee for Session 2000-01 and Future Work of the Committee] brought up and read the first time.

Ordered, That the Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1to100 read and agreed to.

Annexes A to F agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Seventh Special Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That several Papers be appended to the Report.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Gulf Veterans' Illnesses and Depleted Uranium: Dr Lewis Moonie, a Member of this House, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Defence, and Mr Chris Baker, OBE, Head, Gulf Veterans' Illness Unit, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

[Adjourned to a date and time to be fixed by the Chairman.


 
 
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Prepared: 24 October 2001