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Mr. Mullin: My hon. Friend is right. One of the problems is that none of us is sufficiently aware of the alternatives. In the past, some of the alternatives were not sufficiently rigorous to justify their being called alternatives. Happily, that is now beginning to change. I accept that a precondition of reducing the prison population is that there must be credible alternatives. It is not sufficient for those who favour a reduction in the use of imprisonment simply to assert that community service and other alternatives are at least as, or more, effective. That must be shown by reference to empirical evidence.

The Committee was surprised to discover that, of the 267 projects examined by the probation inspectorate as part of its "what works" project--an important piece of work--only 33 could provide serious evidence of the outcomes. That is not necessarily a criticism of the type of programme, but if one wants to sell that programme, however good it may be, and the outcome cannot be demonstrated, the programme deserves criticism. Of the 33 projects that could provide evidence of the outcome, in only four cases did the research demonstrate credible examples of good practice.

We welcome the fact that the probation service now recognises that problem, and is taking steps to deal with it. However, if community service is to be promoted as a credible alternative to imprisonment--I believe that in many cases it is--it must be supported by hard evidence, not by assertion.

Mr. Peter Bottomley (Worthing, West): There is one point on which I have seen no research. Obviously, it is possible to look at whether a disposal other than imprisonment has a better outcome for a certain group, but in respect of people on the margin of being sent to prison, is there much evidence to show whether being sent to prison has such an outcome? The alternative does not necessarily have to be probation or community service; simply sending such people to prison may be worse than not sending them to prison.

Mr. Mullin: I am not entirely sure that I understand the hon. Gentleman's point--I am sure that it is my fault rather than his. It may help him if I deal with some of the specific areas that the Committee examined.

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We looked at a pilot project on electronic tagging, which has been operating in Manchester since 1995. Similar experiments are under way in other parts of the country. Although there were some initial teething troubles, we were glad to note that those appeared to have been overcome and that tagging was likely to come into general use next year.

Curfew orders enforced by electronic monitoring could have two applications. First, they could be used as a sentence available to the courts for someone who would otherwise be sent to prison, and could be combined with a probation or a community service order. Secondly, a home detention curfew order could be used as a condition of parole for shorter-term prisoners. It has been estimated--indeed, I believe that it is the Government's intention--that that could free 3,000 prison places a year in the medium term.

The key to the success of electronic tagging is enforcement. The technology enables the slightest breach to be registered. When a serious breach occurs, it is important that the offender understands that consequences will follow swiftly. In most cases, the logical consequence of a serious failure to comply with a curfew order is imprisonment. We shall watch with interest the rigour with which curfew orders are enforced.

We examined programmes of intensive probation. Of particular interest was the model based on the so-called Dordrecht initiative, which we visited in Burnley. That programme concentrated on the 100 or so most persistent offenders in the town. Many of them had served repeated terms of imprisonment, which had had no impact on their offending behaviour. To qualify for a place on the programme, each offender had to show a serious intent to reform. The programme offered them help to reconstruct often chaotic life styles by providing access to drug or alcohol rehabilitation, education, training and, one hopes, in due course, work.

We were impressed by the dedication of those running the programme, one of whom was a police officer. He told me that it was a pleasure to be involved in the project, because, instead of locking up the same old people time after time, it held out the prospect of addressing the roots of the problem. He found the work very satisfying, and we were impressed with him and his colleagues. At the time of our visit, it was too early to evaluate the programme, but we believe that it has every chance of success.

Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North): I am a member of the Select Committee. Does my hon. Friend agree that the visits we made and the documentary evidence we received made us aware of the persistent anti-social behaviour of many people on probation? In the past, some aspects of the probation service have been criticised. I have not done so, because I worked with the service for two weeks in 1973 and I recognise the tremendous difficulties that probation staff face when dealing with people with a history of anti-social behaviour, who have often been in and out of prison. It is not an easy job, and I imagine that no one in the House would want to undertake probation work.

Mr. Mullin: My hon. Friend makes a fair point. I take it as read that those who work with offenders often have

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to deal with extremely difficult customers, so we should not be surprised if there are some failures. We must acknowledge the dedication of people who work with offenders. We saw some impressive work in the many projects that we visited around the country.

We examined the extent to which probation and community service orders are enforced. The first thing to be said is that the available statistics in this area are inadequate. According to Home Office research, about 70 per cent. of such orders are successfully completed. It is far from clear what happens to those who fail to turn up. We were told that it can take between three weeks and two months to return to court an offender in breach of an order, and that the police do not attach high priority to tracking down those who fail to respond to court orders.

It goes without saying that the credibility of community service and probation orders is fatally undermined if those who decline to co-operate go unpunished. The Committee recommended that an experiment should be conducted to see whether civil enforcement agencies could be used more effectively. I welcome the Government's response that, as soon as an opportunity arises, legislation will be introduced to give effect to that recommendation.

Several members of the judiciary remarked to us that they regretted the recent restrictions on the use of the suspended sentence, which they regarded as one of the more effective tools in their armoury. I am glad to note from the Government's response to our report that Ministers are considering the use of suspended sentences, in conjunction with community service orders.

Our report should not be seen in isolation; it should be seen merely as a further step along the road to a criminal justice system that is more effective in protecting the public and reducing criminality. In particular, it should be seen alongside the Crime and Disorder Act 1998, which has greatly increased the number of options available to the police and the courts when they deal with youth crime. Until the Act, our criminal justice system had become virtually ineffective against young criminals, and that, more than any other factor, has undermined public confidence in non-custodial sentences. I welcome all that the Government have done so far to speed up youth justice and render it more effective: I know that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary takes the issue seriously.

There is another issue, however, which we have hardly begun to tackle. It requires co-ordinated action by several Departments, not just the Home Office. I refer to diversion: diverting vulnerable young people away from criminal activity. When the former permanent secretary at the Home Office appeared before the Select Committee a few years ago--he has now gone on to more exalted things, if it is possible to become more exalted than permanent secretary at the Home Office--I asked him how much of the Home Office budget was spent on diversion. It became clear through our exchanges that he did not know what I was talking about; but the following year, when he returned, there was a paragraph in the Home Office annual report headed "Diversion". We make progress, but slowly.

At present, we spend far too much on locking people up after they have become criminals, and not nearly enough on diverting vulnerable young people from criminal life styles. The expenditure of relatively small sums could prevent us from having to spend much larger sums further down the line. During our inquiry, we visited

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a project called "Youth Works" in Blackburn, the constituency of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. We were told that the project cost about £180,000 a year to run, and that it provided a large number of vulnerable young people--who would otherwise be hanging around the streets in a high-crime area with nothing to do--with constructive activities outside school hours.

On the Pennywell estate in my constituency, there is a scheme called "Break-out", which helps to occupy nearly 700 vulnerable youngsters. It costs about £60,000 a year, the cost of locking up one juvenile for 18 months. The moral of the story is obvious, yet most of the money has to be begged, and those who run such excellent schemes rarely know where their funds will come from more than a few months in advance.


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