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House of Commons
Session 1998-99
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House of Commons Votes and Proceedings
Tuesday 22nd June 1999

The House met at half-past Two o'clock.
PRAYERS.
1Pollution Prevention and Control Bill [Lords],—Mr Peter Atkinson reported from Standing Committee A, That it had gone through the Pollution Prevention and Control Bill [Lords], and made Amendments thereunto.
 
        Bill, as amended in the Standing Committee, to be considered to-morrow; and to be printed [Bill 124].
 
        Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to be printed [No. 576].
2Finance Bill,—Mr John Butterfill reported from Standing Committee B, That it had gone through the Finance Bill (except Clauses Nos. 2, 28 and 99), and made Amendments thereunto.
 
        Bill, not amended in the Committee and as amended in the Standing Committee, to be considered to-morrow; and to be printed [Bill 126].
 
        Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to be printed [No. 578].
3Commonwealth Development Corporation Bill [Lords],—Mr John Maxton reported from Standing Committee D, That it had gone through the Commonwealth Development Corporation Bill [Lords], and made Amendments thereunto.
 
        Bill, as amended in the Standing Committee, to be considered to-morrow; and to be printed [Bill 125].
 
        Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to be printed [No. 577].
4Trustee Delegation Bill [Lords],—Mr Humfrey Malins reported from Standing Committee F, That it had gone through the Trustee Delegation Bill [Lords], and directed him to report the same, without Amendment.
 
        Bill, not amended in the Standing Committee, to be considered to-morrow.
 
        Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to be printed [No. 565].
5Parliamentary Control of the Executive,—Ordered, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to make the exercise of certain powers of Ministers of the Crown subject to control by the House of Commons: And that Mr David Davis, Mr Robert Maclennan, Mr David Maclean, Mr Tony Benn, Mr Derek Foster, Mr Douglas Hogg and Mr Eric Forth do prepare and bring it in.
6Parliamentary Control of the Executive Bill,—Mr David Davis accordingly presented a Bill to make the exercise of certain powers of Ministers of the Crown subject to control by the House of Commons: And the same was read the first time; and ordered to be read a second time on Friday 23rd July and to be printed [Bill 123].
7Tax Credits Bill and Access to Justice Bill [Lords] (Programme),—Ordered, That the following provisions shall apply to—
 
          (a) proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments to the Tax Credits Bill,
 
          (b) proceedings on the Motion in the name of Mrs Barbara Roche relating to Access to Justice Bill [Lords] [Ways and Means], and
 
          (c) consideration and Third Reading of the Access to Justice Bill [Lords].
 
        1.—(1) The proceedings to which this Order applies shall be taken in the order specified in the Table.
 
        (2) Each part of the proceedings to which this Order applies shall, if not previously concluded, be concluded today at the times shown in the Table.
 
Table
Proceedings
Conclusion
Tax Credits Bill: Consideration of Lords Amendments
Amendment 15.30 p.m.
Amendment 26.30 p.m.
Remaining Amendments7.00 p.m.
Motion on Access to Justice Bill [Lords] [Ways and Means]
Remaining Amendments7.15 p.m.
Access to Justice Bill [Lords]: Consideration and Third Reading8.45 p.m.
Government new Clauses and new Schedule10.15 p.m.
Remaining new Clauses11.00 p.m.
Remaining amendments and Motions, and Third ReadingMidnight
 
Conclusion of proceedings on Tax Credits Bill
 
        2.—(1) This paragraph applies for the purpose of concluding any proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments to the Tax Credits Bill in accordance with paragraph 1.
 
        (2) The Speaker shall first put forthwith any Question already proposed from the Chair and not yet decided.
 
        (3) If that Question is for the amendment of a Lords Amendment the Speaker shall then put forthwith—
 
          (a) the Question on any further amendment of the Lords Amendment moved by a Minister of the Crown, and
 
          (b) the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown, That this House agrees or disagrees to the Lords Amendment or (as the case may be) to the Lords Amendment as amended.
 
        (4) The Speaker shall then put forthwith—
 
          (a) the Question on any Amendment moved by a Minister of the Crown to a Lords Amendment, and
 
          (b) the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown, That this House agrees or disagrees to the Lords Amendment or (as the case may be) to the Lords Amendment as amended.
 
        (5) The Speaker shall then put forthwith the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown, That this House disagrees to a Lords Amendment.
 
        (6) The Speaker shall then put forthwith the Question, That this House agrees to all the remaining Lords Amendments.
 
        (7) As soon as the House has agreed or disagreed to a Lords Amendment, or disposed of an Amendment relevant to a Lords Amendment which has been disagreed to, the Speaker shall put forthwith a separate Question on any other Amendment which is moved by a Minister of the Crown and relevant to the Lords Amendment.
 
        (8) The Speaker shall put forthwith the Question on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown for the appointment, nomination and quorum of a Committee to draw up Reasons and the appointment of its Chairman.
 
        (9) A Committee appointed to draw up Reasons shall report before the conclusion of this day's sitting.
 
Conclusion of proceedings on Access to Justice Bill [Lords]
 
        3.—(1) This paragraph applies for the purpose of concluding any proceedings on the Access to Justice Bill [Lords] in accordance with paragraph 1.
 
        (2) The Speaker shall forthwith put the following Questions (but no others)—
 
          (a) any Question already proposed from the Chair;
 
          (b) any Question necessary to bring to a decision a Question so proposed;
 
          (c) the Question on any amendment moved or Motion made by a Minister of the Crown; and
 
          (d) any other Question necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded.
 
        (3) On a Motion made for a new Clause or a new Schedule, the Speaker shall put only the Question that the Clause or Schedule be added to the Bill.
 
        (4) If two or more Questions would fall to be put under sub-paragraph (2)(c) on amendments moved or Motions made by a Minister of the Crown, the Speaker shall instead put a single Question in relation to those amendments or Motions.
 
Common provisions
 
        4.—In the case of any proceedings to which this Order applies—
 
          (a) Standing Order No. 15(1) (Exempted business) shall apply;
 
          (b) Standing Order No. 82 (Business Committee) shall not apply;
 
          (c) the proceedings shall not be interrupted under any Standing Order relating to the sittings of the House;
 
          (d) no dilatory Motion with respect to, or in the course of, the proceedings shall be made except by a Minister of the Crown (in which case the Question on the Motion shall be put forthwith);
 
          (e) if the proceedings are interrupted by a Motion for the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 24 (Adjournment on specific and important matter that should have urgent consideration) a period equal to the duration of the proceedings on the Motion shall be added to the period allowed for the interrupted proceedings; and
 
          (f) if the House is adjourned, or the sitting is suspended, before the proceedings are concluded no notice shall be required of a Motion made by a Minister of the Crown for varying or supplementing the provisions of this Order.—(Jane Kennedy.)
8Tax Credits Bill,—The House, according to Order, proceeded to consider the Lords Amendments to the Tax Credits Bill.
 
        Lords Amendment No. 1.
 
        A Motion was made, and the Question being put, That this House disagrees with the Lords in the said Amendment—(Dawn Primarolo);
 
        The House divided.
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, Mr David Clelland, Mr Greg Pope: 306.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mrs Eleanor Laing, Mr Stephen Day: 160.
 
        So the Question was agreed to.
 
        The Lords Amendment was accordingly disagreed to.
 
        Lords Amendment No. 2.
 
        A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That this House disagrees with the Lords in the said Amendment—(Dawn Primarolo);
 
        And it being half-past Six o'clock, the Deputy Speaker put the Question already proposed from the Chair, pursuant to the Order this day.
 
        The House divided.
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Mike Hall, Jim Dowd: 317.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mrs Jacqui Lait, Mr Stephen Day: 161.
 
        So the Question was agreed to.
 
        The Lords Amendment was accordingly disagreed to.
 
        Lords Amendment No. 3 was disagreed to.
 
        Lords Amendments Nos. 4 to 11 were agreed to, the Commons being willing to waive the privileges in respect of Lords Amendment No. 4.
 
        Ordered, That a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their Amendments Nos. 1 to 3;
 
        That Ms Hazel Blears, Mrs Eleanor Laing, Mr Eric Pickles, Mr Greg Pope and Dawn Primarolo be members of the Committee;
 
        That Dawn Primarolo be the Chairman of the Committee;
 
        That three be the Quorum of the Committee;
 
        That the Committee do withdraw immediately.—(Mrs Anne McGuire)
9Access to Justice Bill [Lords] [Ways and Means],—Resolved, That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Access to Justice Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise—
 
        (a) the imposition on professional bodies of requirements to make payments towards meeting the expenditure of the Legal Services Ombudsman and the Legal Services Complaints Commissioner, and
 
        (b) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund—(Mrs Anne McGuire.)
10Tax Credits Bill,—Dawn Primarolo reported from the Committee appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their Amendments Nos. 1 to 3, That it had drawn up the following Reasons, which it had directed her to report to the House:
 
        The Commons disagree to Lords Amendments Nos. 1 and 3 for the following Reason:—
 
        Because it is not appropriate for smaller employers to be exempted from paying tax credit to their employees.
 
        The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment No. 2 for the following Reason:—
 
        Because it is appropriate for tax credit paid to employees to be paid by their employers.
 
        The Reasons were agreed to.
 
        Message to the Lords to communicate the said Reasons, with the Bill and Amendments.
11Access to Justice Bill [Lords],—The House, according to Order, proceeded to consider the Access to Justice Bill [Lords], as amended in the Standing Committee.
 
        A Clause (Principles applicable to Part I)—(Mr Edward Garnier)—brought up, and read the first time.
 
        Question put, That the Clause be read a second time.
 
        The House divided.
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Stephen Day, Mrs Jacqui Lait: 146.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mr Mike Hall, Jim Dowd: 313.
 
        Amendments (Nos. 87, 88, 11 to 16, 89, 90, 17 to 22 and 38 to 44) made to the Bill.
 
        Another Amendment (No. 95) proposed to the Bill, in page 68, line 32, at the end, to insert the words 'and actions brought by or on behalf of children under 18, patients within the meaning of the Mental Health Act 1983, persons with disabilities within the meaning of section 1(1) of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 and persons in receipt of Income Support, save that services shall not be funded if the Commission is satisfied in any individual case that a conditional fee agreement is available'.—(Mr Robert Marshall-Andrews.)
 
        Question proposed, That the Amendment be made.
 
        Mr Edward Garnier rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put.
 
        Question, That the Question be now put, put and agreed to.
 
        Question put accordingly
 
        The House divided.
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Kelvin Hopkins, Mr Alan Simpson: 173.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mr David Hanson, Jane Kennedy: 291.
 
        And it being after a quarter to Nine o'clock, the Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that hour, pursuant to the Order this day.
 
        Other Amendments (Nos. 45 to 69) made to the Bill.
 
        Another Clause (Powers of Ombudsman)—(Mr Keith Vaz)—brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
 
        Another Clause (Funding of Ombudsman by professional bodies)—(Mr Keith Hill)—brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
 
        Another Clause (The Commissioner)—(Mr Keith Hill)—brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
 
        Another Clause (Commissioner's functions)—(Mr Keith Hill)—brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
 
        Another Clause (Bar practising certificates)—(Mr Keith Vaz)—brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
 
        Another Clause (Fees for solicitors' practising certificates)—(Mr Keith Vaz)—brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
 
        Another Clause (Code of conduct)—(Mr Keith Vaz)—brought up, read the first and second time, and added to the Bill.
 
        And it being a quarter-past Ten o'clock, the Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that hour, pursuant to the Order this day.
 
        Other Clauses (Recovery where body undertakes to meet costs liabilities, Adjournment of inquest in event of judicial inquiry, and Judges holding office in European or international courts) and a Schedule (Legal Services Complaints Commissioner) added to the Bill.—(Mr Keith Vaz.)
 
        Other Amendments (Nos. 23 to 26) made to the Bill.
 
        Another Amendment (No. 98) proposed to the Bill, in page 19, line 3, after the word 'proceedings', to insert the words 'save those brought under section 82 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990'.—(Mr Nick Hawkins.)
 
        Question proposed, That the Amendment be made:—Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
 
        Other Amendments (Nos. 27 to 37) made to the Bill.
 
        Another Amendment (No. 94) proposed to the Bill, in page 27, line 36, at the end, to insert the words—
 
          '( ) No person shall take or use any name, title or description implying that he is certificated as a notary by the Incorporated Company of Scriveners of London unless he is qualified to practise as a Scrivener notary in accordance with the rules and ordinances of that Company.
 
          ( ) A person who contravenes the preceeding subsection shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale'.—(Mr Peter Brooke.)
 
        Question proposed, That the Amendment be made:—Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
 
        Ordered, That Clause No. 54 be transferred to the end of line 32 on page 33.—(Mr Keith Vaz..)
 
        Ordered, That Clause No. 59 be transferred to the end of line 5 on page 31.—(Mr Keith Vaz..)
 
        Ordered, That Clause No. 60 be transferred to the end of line 32 on page 33.—(Mr Keith Vaz..)
 
        Another Amendment (No. 1) made to the Bill.
 
        Ordered, That Clause No. 70 be transferred to the end of line 32 on page 33.—(Mr Keith Vaz..)
 
        Other Amendments (Nos. 100 to 103, 91, 3, 104, 92, 70 to 81, 4 and 105) made to the Bill.
 
        Ordered, That Schedule No. 10 be transferred to the end of line 36 on page 91.—(Mr Keith Vaz.)
 
        Other Amendments (Nos. 106 to 112, 5 to 7, 82, 8 to 10, 113, 114, 83, 84, 93, 85, 86 and 115 to 118) made to the Bill.
 
        Ordered, That Part IV(5) (Enforcement of community orders) of Schedule No. 14 be transferred to the end of line 27 on page 148.—(Mr Keith Vaz.)
 
        Another Amendment (No. 119) made to the Bill.
 
        Title accordingly amended, as follows: A Bill to establish the Legal Services Commission, the Community Legal Service and the Criminal Defence Service; to amend the law of legal aid in Scotland; to make further provision about legal services; to make provision about appeals, courts, judges and court proceedings; to amend the law about magistrates and magistrates' courts; and to make provision about immunity from action and costs and indemnities for certain officials exercising judicial functions.
 
        A Motion being made, That the Bill be now read the third time;
 
        Mr Secretary Blunkett, by Her Majesty's Command, acquainted the House, That Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Bill, gives her Consent, as far as Her Majesty's interest is concerned, That the House may do therein as it shall think fit.
 
        And the Question being put;
 
        The House proceeded to a Division.
Wednesday 23rd June 1999
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, Mrs Anne McGuire, Mr Clive Betts: 301.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mr Stephen Day, Mrs Jacqui Lait: 151.
 
        So the Question was agreed to.
 
        The Bill was accordingly read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.
12Northern Ireland Grand Committee,—Ordered, That—
 
        (1) the matter of the Review of the Criminal Justice System in Northern Ireland be referred to the Northern Ireland Grand Committee for its consideration;
 
        (2) at the sitting on Thursday 8th July—
 
          (i) the Committee shall take questions for oral answer and shall then consider the matter referred to it under paragraph (1) above;
 
          (ii) the Chairman shall interrupt proceedings at Five o'clock; and
 
          (iii) at the conclusion of those proceedings, a Motion for the adjournment of the Committee may be made by a Minister of the Crown, pursuant to Standing Order No. 116(5).—(Mr David Jamieson.)
13Public Petitions,—A Public Petition from the Health Food Manufacturers' Association against the proposal to give the Medicines Control Agency power to classify natural health products as medicines was presented; and ordered to lie upon the Table and to be printed.
14Adjournment,—Resolved, That this House do now adjourn.—(Mr David Jamieson.)
 
        And accordingly the House, having continued to sit till twenty-nine minutes to One o'clock, adjourned till this day.
[Adjourned at 1.31 a.m.
Betty Boothroyd
Speaker        

Madam Speaker will take the Chair at half-past Nine o'clock.

APPENDIX I
Papers presented or laid upon the Table:
1Animals,—Report of the Animal Procedures Committee for 1998 [by Act]; to be printed [No. 492] [Mr Secretary Straw].
2Appropriations in Aid,—Treasury Minute, dated 22nd June 1999, directing the application of certain receipts as appropriations in aid of the votes specified in the Revised Estimates, Summer Supplementary Estimates and New Estimates for 1999-2000 [by Act] [Mrs Barbara Roche].
3Broadcasting,—Report and Accounts of the British Broadcasting Corporation for 1998-99 [by Command] [Mr Secretary Smith].
4Health,—Government Response to the Third Report from the Health Committee, Session 1998-99, on Future NHS Staffing Requirements [by Command] [Cm. 4379] [Mr Secretary Dobson].
5Interception of Communications,—Consultation Paper, entitled Interception of Communications in the United Kingdom [by Command] [Cm. 4368] [Mr Secretary Straw].
6Supply Estimates, 1999-2000,—Revised Estimates, Summer Supplementary Estimates and New Estimates for 1999-2000 [by Command]; to be printed [No. 520] [Mrs Barbara Roche].
APPENDIX II
Reports from Select Committees
1Agriculture,—(1) Seventh Report from the Agriculture Committee [Outcome of the CAP Reform Negotiations], together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 442];
 
        (2) Fourth Special Report from the Committee [Government Response to the Fourth Report from the Committee, on The UK Pig Industry: The Government's Response], together with an Appendix; to be printed [No. 573];
 
        (3) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [Sea Fishing]; to be printed [No. 141-vi]; and
 
        (4) Memoranda laid before the Committee [Sea Fishing; The Marketing of Milk]
 
    [Mr Peter Luff].
2Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Environment Sub-Committee of the Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee [Town and Country Parks]; to be printed [No. 477-iii] [Mr Andrew F. Bennett].
3Foreign Affairs,—(1) Fifth Report from the Foreign Affairs Committee [Foreign and Commonwealth Office Resources], together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 271]; and
 
        (2) Memoranda laid before the Committee [Foreign and Commonwealth Office Resources]
 
    [Mr Donald Anderson].
4Home Affairs,—(1) Third Special Report from the Home Affairs Committee [Government Observations on the First Report from the Committee on the work of the Criminal Cases Review Commission]; to be printed [No. 569]; and
 
        (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [Drugs and Prisons]; to be printed [No. 363-iii]
 
    [Mr Chris Mullin].
5International Development,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the International Development Committee [Department for International Development: Departmental Report 1999]; to be printed [No. 567-i] [Mr Bowen Wells].
6Local Government (Organisation and Standards),—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Joint Committee on Local Government (Organisation and Standards); to be printed [No. 542-ii] [Mr Peter L. Pike].
7Public Administration,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Select Committee on Public Administration [Freedom of Information Draft Bill]; to be printed [Nos. 570-i and -ii] [Dr Tony Wright].
8Statutory Instruments,—Twenty-second Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, together with Memoranda laid before the Committee; to be printed [No. 50-xxii] [Mr David Tredinnick].
9Treasury,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Treasury Committee [The Bank of England Monetary Policy Committee—Two Years On]; to be printed [No. 505-iii] [Mr Giles Radice].



 
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