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House of Commons
Session 1997-98
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House of Commons Votes and Proceedings
Wednesday 22nd July 1998

The House met at half-past Nine o'clock.
PRAYERS.
1Adjournment,—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That this House do now adjourn—(Mr Robert Ainsworth);
 
        And it being Two o'clock, the Motion for the adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
2City of Edinburgh (Guided Busways) Order Confirmation Bill,—The City of Edinburgh (Guided Busways) Order Confirmation Bill was, according to Order, read the third time, and passed.
3Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation,—Mr Joe Benton reported from the Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation the draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers' Compensation) (Payment of Claims) Amendment 1998.
 
        Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.
4Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation,—Mr Peter Atkinson reported from the Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986 (Amendment) Regulations 1998.
 
        Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.
5Message from the Lords,—A Message was brought from the Lords, as follows:
 
        The Lords have agreed to the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Bill, with Amendments; to which they desire the concurrence of this House.
6Northern Ireland (Sentences) Bill,—Lords Amendments to the Northern Ireland (Sentences) Bill to be considered to-morrow and to be printed [Bill 238].
7Energy Efficiency Bill,—Ordered, That the Energy Efficiency Bill, as amended in the Standing Committee, be considered on Friday 6th November.
8Pet Ownership (Residential and Sheltered Accommodation) Bill,—Mr Paul Burstow presented a Bill to require local authorities to formulate policies to enable people in certain types of accommodation to keep pets; and for connected purposes: And the same was read the first time; and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow and to be printed [Bill 236].
9Flood Warnings (Vulnerable Properties),—Ordered, That leave to be given to bring in a Bill to introduce a system of advance warnings whereby people who buy or rent homes, stay in hotels, or rent or pitch caravans or tents in flood plains are informed of the risks; and for connected purposes: And that Ms Sally Keeble, Mr Tony Clarke, Dr Evan Harris, Dr Phyllis Starkey, Mrs Diana Organ, Mr Patrick Hall, Mr John Hayes, Mr Brian White, Paddy Tipping, Mr John Healey, Mr Paul Keetch and Gillian Merron do prepare and bring it in.
10Flood Warnings (Vulnerable Properties) Bill,—Ms Sally Keeble accordingly presented a Bill to introduce a system of advance warnings whereby people who buy or rent homes, stay in hotels, or rent or pitch caravans or tents in flood plains are informed of the risks; and for connected purposes: And the same was read the first time; and ordered to be read a second time on Friday 6th November and to be printed [Bill 237].
11Government of Wales Bill,—The House, according to Order, proceeded to consider the Lords Amendments to the Government of Wales Bill.
 
        Ordered, That the Lords Amendments to the Bill be considered in the following order, namely: No. 125; No. 33; Remaining Amendments (other than Nos. 3, 5 to 12, 14 to 16, 18, 20 to 22, 27, 49 and 82); Nos. 49 and 82; Nos. 3, 5 to 12, 14 to 16, 18 and 20 to 22; No. 27.—(Mr Jon Owen Jones.)
 
        Lords Amendment No. 125 was agreed to.
 
        Lords Amendment No. 33.
 
        Question put, That this House agrees with the Lords in their Amendment.
 
        The House divided.
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, Mr John McFall, Mr David Jamieson: 266.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mr Ieuan Wyn Jones, Mr Lembit Öpik: 46.
 
        The Lords Amendment was accordingly agreed to.
 
        Lords Amendments Nos. 1, 2, 4, 13, 17, 19, 23 to 26, 28 to 32, 34 to 48, 50 to 81, 83 to 124, 126 to 210, 49 and 82 were agreed to, the Commons being willing to waive their privileges in respect of Lords Amendments Nos. 186 and 187.
 
        Lords Amendments Nos. 3, 5 to 12, 14 to 16, 18 and 20 were disagreed to.
 
        Lords Amendment No. 21.
 
        The Lords Amendment was amended, in line 1, by leaving out the words 'the same list as the last person to occupy the vacant seat' and inserting the words 'that list'.—(Mr Secretary Davies.)
 
        The Lords Amendment, so amended, was agreed to.
 
        Lords Amendment No. 22 was disagreed to.
 
        Lords Amendment No. 27 was disagreed to.
 
        An Amendment was proposed to the Bill in lieu of Lords Amendment No. 27, disagreed to, in page 28, line 12, at the end, to insert the words—
 
          '( ) A Minister of the Crown may not—
 
          (a) be elected to be Assembly First Secretary, or
 
          (b) be appointed as an Assembly Secretary.'—(Dr Liam Fox.)
 
        Question put, That the Amendment in lieu be made.
 
        The House divided.
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Stephen Day, Mr Nigel Waterson: 148.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mr David Jamieson, Mr Kevin Hughes: 265.
 
        The Title was accordingly amended, as follows: A Bill to establish and make provision about the National Assembly for Wales and the offices of Auditor General for Wales and the Welsh Administration Ombudsman; to reform certain Welsh public bodies and abolish certain other Welsh public bodies; and for connected purposes.
 
        Ordered, That a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their Amendments Nos. 3, 5 to 12, 14 to 16, 18, 20, 22 and 27.
 
        Ordered, That Mr Nick Ainger, Mr Secretary Davies, Mr Stephen Day, Mr Nigel Evans and Mr Jon Owen Jones be members of the Committee.
 
        Ordered, That Mr Secretary Davies be the Chairman of the Committee.
 
        Ordered, That three be the quorum of the Committee.
 
        Ordered, That the Committee do withdraw immediately.—(Mr Jon Owen Jones.)
12Northern Ireland Bill (Committee) [1st allotted day],—The House, according to Order, resolved itself into a Committee on the Northern Ireland Bill.
 
(In the Committee)
 
        Clause No.1 (Status of Northern Ireland).
 
        Amendment (No. 60) proposed, in page 1, line 10, at the end, to insert the words—
 
        '(1A) The Secretary of State shall not make an order under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 without the Assembly giving its consent by a cross-community vote as defined in section 4(5).'.—(The Reverend Ian Paisley.)
 
        Question put, That the Amendment be made.
 
        The Committee divided.
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, The Reverend Ian Paisley, Mr William Thompson: 10.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mr Robert Ainsworth, Mr Kevin Hughes: 285.
 
        Another Amendment (No. 104) proposed, in page 1, line 11, after the word 'But', to insert the words 'subject to subsection (3) below'.—(Mr David Trimble.)
 
        Question proposed, That the Amendment be made:— Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
 
        Another Amendment (No. 105) proposed, in page 1, line 15, after the word 'of', to insert the words 'the Republic of'.—(Mr David Trimble.)
 
        Question proposed, That the Amendment be made:— Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
 
        The Chairman, being of the opinion that the principle of the Clause and any matters arising thereon had been adequately discussed in the course of debate on the Amendments proposed thereto, put forthwith the Question, pursuant to Standing Order No. 68 (Debate on clause or schedule standing part), That the Clause stand part of the Bill:— It was agreed to.
 
        Schedule No. 1 (Polls for the purposes of section 1).
 
        Amendment (No. 37) proposed, in page 39, line 18, to leave out the word 'including' and insert the word 'except'.—(Mr Malcolm Moss.)
 
        Question proposed, That the Amendment be made:— Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
 
        Schedule agreed to.
 
        Clause No. 2 (Previous enactments).
 
        Amendment (No. 134) proposed, in page 1, line 16, at the beginning, to insert '(1)'.—(Mr Willam Ross.)
 
        Question proposed, That the Amendment be made:— Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
 
        Question put, That the Clause stand part of the Bill.
 
        The Committee divided.
 
          Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Robert Ainsworth, Mr Kevin Hughes: 282.
 
          Tellers for the Noes, Mr Peter Robinson, Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson: 9.
 
        It being more than three hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Bill this day, the Chairman, pursuant to Order [17th July], put the Questions necesssary for the disposal of business then required to be concluded.
 
        Clauses Nos. 3 and 4, Schedules Nos. 2 and 3, Clauses Nos. 5 and 6, Schedule No. 4 and Clauses Nos. 7 to 13 agreed to.
 
        The Chairman left the Chair to report progress and ask leave to sit again.


 
        The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair, and Mr Jim Dowd reported, That the Committee had made progress in the Bill and moved, That the Committee may have leave to sit again.
 
        Committee again to-morrow.
13Government of Wales Bill,—Mr Secretary Davies reported from the Committee appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their Amendments Nos 3, 5 to 12, 14 to 16, 18, 20, 22 and 27 to the Government of Wales Bill, That it had drawn up the following Reasons, which it had directed him to report to the House:
 
        The Commons disagree to Lords Amendments Nos. 3, 5 to 12, 14 to 16, 18, 20 and 22 for the following Reason:—
 
        Because the Amendments would unjustifiably restrict the right of voters to choose the persons who are to be members of the National Assembly for Wales for the electoral regions.
 
        The Commons disagree to Lords Amendments No. 27 for the following Reason:
 
        Because it is not appropriate for Ministers of the Crown to be disqualified from being members of the National Assembly for Wales.
 
        The Reasons were agreed to.
 
        Message to the Lords to communicate the said Reasons, with the Bill and Amendments.
14Adjournment,—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That this House do now adjourn—(Mr Jim Dowd);
 
        And the Motion having being made after Ten o'clock, and the Debate having continued for half an hour, the Deputy Speaker adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order, it being then twenty-eight minutes to Twelve o'clock till to-morrow.
[Adjourned at 11.32 p.m.
Betty Boothroyd
Speaker        

Madam Speaker will take the Chair at half-past Two o'clock.

APPENDIX I
Papers presented or laid upon the Table:
Papers subject to Negative Resolution:
1Designs,—Registered Designs (Fees) Rules 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1777), dated 16th July 1998 [by Act] [Secretary Margaret Beckett].
2Gas,—Gas Act 1986 (Exemption) Order 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1779), dated 20th July 1998 [by Act] [Secretary Margaret Beckett].
3Northern Ireland,—(1) Education (Student Support) (Northern Ireland) Order 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1760), and
 
        (2) Public Interest Disclosure (Northern Ireland) Order 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1763),
 
    dated 21st July 1998 [by Act] [Mrs Ann Taylor].
4Patents,—Patents (Fees) Rules 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1778), dated 16th July 1998 [by Act] [Secretary Margaret Beckett].
5Trade Marks,—Trade Marks (Fees) Rules 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1776), dated 9th July 1998 [by Act] [Secretary Margaret Beckett].
Other Papers:
6Enterprise and New Towns (Scotland),—(1) Report of Scottish Enterprise for 1997-98 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Dewar]; and
 
        (2) Accounts of Scottish Enterprise for 1997-98, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 1028] [Clerk of the House].
7Further and Higher Education,—Accounts of the Further and Higher Education Funding Councils for Wales for 1997-98, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 1027] [Clerk of the House].
8Higher Education (Scotland),—Report by the Secretary of State for Scotland on Further Education in Scotland for 1997 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Dewar].
9Housing,—Report and Accounts of Liverpool Housing Action Trust for 1997-98 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Prescott].
10Housing (Scotland),—(1) Accounts, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon, and
 
        (2) Report
 
    of Scottish Homes for 1997-98 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Dewar].
11Magistrates' Courts,—Report of Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of the Magistrates' Courts Service for 1997-98 [by Act]; to be printed [No. 866] [Mr Geoffrey Hoon].
12National Audit,—Report by the Comptroller and Auditor General on A Case Study of Stores Management in the Ministry of Defence [by Act]; to be printed [No. 951] [Clerk of the House].
13National Lottery,—Accounts of the Scottish Sports Council National Lottery Fund for 1997-98, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 1029] [Clerk of the House].
14Nurses, Midwives and Health Visitors,—Report and Accounts of the National Board for Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting for 1997-98 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Dobson].
15Public Accounts,—Treasury Minute on the Thirty-first to Thirty-seventh Reports from the Committee of Public Accounts, Session 1997-98 [by Command] [Cm. 4004] [Dawn Primarolo].
16Social Security,—Report by the Secretary of State for Social Security on the Social Fund for 1997-98 [by Command] [Cm. 4003] [Secretary Harriet Harman].
17Trade Union and Labour Relations,—Account of the Commissioner for Protection against Unlawful Industrial Action for 1997-98, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 1030] [Clerk of the House].
18Transport (Scotland),—Paper, entitled Travel Choices for Scotland: The Scottish Integrated Transport White Paper [by Command] [Cm. 4010] [Mr Secretary Dewar].
19United Nations,—(1) Angola (United Nations Sanctions) Order 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1752),
 
        (2) Angola (United Nations Sanctions) (Channel Islands) Order 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1756),
 
        (3) Angola (United Nations Sanctions) (Dependent Territories) Order 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1753),
 
        (4) Angola (United Nations Sanctions) (Isle of Man) Order 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1757), and
 
        (5) United Nations (International Tribunals) (Former Yugoslavia and Rwanda) (Amendment) Order 1998 (S.I., 1998, No. 1755),
 
    dated 21st July 1998 [by Act] [Mrs Ann Taylor].
APPENDIX II
Standing Committees
1Draft Undertaking by the Secretary of State for Scotland with the consent of Her Majesty's Treasury and P & O Scottish Ferries Limited and the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company for the provision of passenger ferry services to Orkney and Shetland:
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Undertaking to the First Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation and appointed Mr Jimmy Hood Chairman; and
 
        (2) The Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mr Douglas Alexander, Mr Russell Brown, Mr Dennis Canavan, Mr Malcolm Chisholm, Maria Fyfe, Dr Norman A. Godman, Mr James Gray, Mr Dominic Grieve, Mr Oliver Letwin, Mr John McFall, Mrs Anne McGuire, Rosemary McKenna, Mr Henry McLeish, Sir Robert Smith, Mr Robert Syms and Mr James Wallace.
2Special Grant Report (Scotland): Grant in aid of expenditure on rural public passenger transport for 1998-99 (House of Commons Paper No. 941):
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the Special Grant Report to the Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation and appointed Mr Roger Gale Chairman; and
 
        (2) The Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mrs Irene Adams, Mrs Eleanor Laing, Mr Oliver Letwin, Mr John McAllion, Mr John McFall, Mrs Anne McGuire, Mr Henry McLeish, Mr David Marshall, Dr Lewis Moonie, Mr Michael Moore, Mr Laurence Robertson, Mr Frank Roy, Mr Malcolm Savidge, Mr Richard Shepherd, Sir Robert Smith and Mr David Stewart.
3Economic and Fiscal Strategy Report 1998 and the Comprehensive Spending Review for the purposes of section 5 of the European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993:
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the Report and the Review to the Sixth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation and appointed Mr Andrew Welsh Chairman; and
 
        (2) The Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mr Robert Ainsworth, Dr Vincent Cable, Mr Lawrence Cunliffe, Mr Edward Davey, Mr Clive Efford, Mr Michael Fallon, Mr Barry Gardiner, Mr Nick Gibb, Mr David Hanson, Mr Oliver Heald, Mr Phil Hope, Dr Ashok Kumar, Mrs Helen Liddell, Mr Bill Olner, Mr David Ruffley and Mr Stephen Twigg.
4Draft Conditional Fee Agreements Order 1998:
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Order to the Ninth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation and appointed Mr George Stevenson Chairman; and
 
        (2) The Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mr Ben Bradshaw, Mr John Burnett, Mrs Ann Cryer, Mr Eric Forth, Mr Michael Foster (Worcester), Mr Edward Garnier, Dr Ian Gibson, Mr Dominic Grieve, Mr David Hinchliffe, Mr Geoffrey Hoon, Jane Kennedy, Mr David Lock, Mr Bob Russell, Mr Martin Salter, Mr Barry Sheerman and Mr John M. Taylor.
5Draft Education (Student Loans) (Scotland) Regulations 1998 and the draft Education (Student Support) Regulations 1998:
 
        (1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Regulations to the Tenth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation and appointed Mr Peter Atkinson Chairman; and
 
        (2) The Committee of Selection has appointed sixteen Members to serve on the Committee, viz.: Mr John Bercow, Christine Butler, Mr Jamie Cann, Mr Vernon Coaker, Mr Donald Gorrie, Mr Damian Green, Dr Kim Howells, Mr David Jamieson, Mrs Eleanor Laing, Mr Oliver Letwin, Mr Tony McNulty, Mr Bill Rammell, Mr Andrew Reed, Mr Phil Willis, Mr Brian Wilson and Mr Anthony D. Wright.
APPENDIX III
Reports from Select Committees
1Defence,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Defence Committee on 22nd July [Strategic Defence Review] [Nos. 138-xx and -xxi]; to be printed [Mr Bruce George].
2Education and Employment,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Education Sub-Committee of the Education and Employment Committee on 22nd July [The Role of Headteachers]; to be printed [No. 725-ix] [Ms Margaret Hodge].
3Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs,—(1) Tenth Report from the Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee [Housing], [together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee]; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 485-I] [Mr Andrew F. Bennett];
 
        (2) Eleventh Report from the Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee [Implementation of the Best Value Framework], [together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Environment Sub-Committee]; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 705-I] [Mr Andrew F. Bennett]; and
 
        (3) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Transport Sub-Committee of the Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee on 22nd July [Railway Safety]; to be printed [No. 987-ii] [Mrs Gwyneth Dunwoody].
4European Legislation,—Thirty-fifth Report from the Select Committee on European Legislation; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 15-xxxv] [Mr Jimmy Hood].
5Health,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Health Committee on 22nd July [Public Expenditure 1998]; to be printed [No. 988-ii] [Mr David Hinchliffe].
6Northern Ireland Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence from the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee on 22nd July [Public Expenditure in Northern Ireland: Special Education Needs]; to be printed [No. 1032-i] [Mr Peter Brooke].
7Social Security,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Social Security Committee on 22nd July [Child Support; Pension Sharing on Divorce]; to be printed [No. 1031-i and 869-vi] [Mr Archy Kirkwood].



 
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