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Session 2004 - 05
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House of Commons Votes and Proceedings
Tuesday 16th November 2004

The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock.

PRAYERS.

1    Report of inquiry into disturbance and fire at Yarl's Wood,—Resolved, That an Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, That she will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid before this House a Return of the Report of the inquiry into the disturbance and fire at Yarl's Wood Removal Centre.—(Mr Desmond Browne.)

2    Report of investigation into disturbance at Harmondsworth Immigration Removal Centre,—Resolved, That an Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, That she will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid before this House a Return of the Report of the investigation into the disturbance at Harmondsworth Immigration Removal Centre on 19th and 20th July 2004.—(Mr Desmond Browne.)

3    Regulatory Reform,—Mr Peter Pike reported from the Regulatory Reform Committee the following Resolution:

That a draft Order in the same terms as the proposal for the Regulatory Reform (Execution of Deeds and Documents) Order 2004, which was laid before the House on 21st July, should be laid before the House.

4    Gambling Bill,—Mr Peter Pike, pursuant to Order [1st November], reported from Standing Committee B, That it had gone through the Gambling Bill, in respect of Clauses Nos. 1 to 32 and Schedules Nos. 1 to 5, and had directed him to report the Bill, as so far amended, to the House.

Bill, as so far amended in the Standing Committee, to lie upon the Table. Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.

5    Message from the Lords,—A Message was brought from the Lords, as follows:

The Lords have agreed to the Civil Contingencies Bill, with Amendments; to which the Lords desire the concurrence of this House. The Lords have agreed, without Amendment, to the Amendments proposed by this House to certain Lords Amendments to the Housing Bill; they do not insist on certain of their Amendments to which this House has disagreed but propose Amendments in lieu thereof; they agree, with an Amendment, to Amendments proposed by this House in lieu of a Lords Amendment to which this House has disagreed, to which Amendment they desire the agreement of this House; and they do not insist on their remaining Amendments to which this House has disagreed.

6    Civil Contingencies Bill,—Lords Amendments to the Civil Contingencies Bill to be considered to-morrow; and to be printed [Bill 181].

7    Housing Bill,—Lords Amendments in lieu of Amendments to the Housing Bill disagreed to by the Commons and Lords Amendment to a Commons Amendment in lieu of a Lords Amendment to be considered to-morrow; and to be printed [Bill 182].

8    Braille Identity Cards,—Ordered, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to require all public authorities and certain regulated companies and organisations providing written means of identification to persons seeking to enter private residences to include braille information about those persons on the written means of identification; and for connected purposes: And that Jon Trickett, Mr Bill O'Brien, Colin Burgon, Mr Martin O'Neill, Mr Tom Clarke, Mr David Lepper, Peter Bottomley, Mr Phil Willis, Mrs Iris Robinson, Mr Andrew Hunter, Mr Fabian Hamilton and Rob Marris do prepare and bring it in.

9    Braille Identity Cards Bill,—Jon Trickett accordingly presented a Bill to require all public authorities and certain regulated companies and organisations providing written means of identification to persons seeking to enter private residences to include braille information about those persons on the written means of identification; and for connected purposes: And the same was read the first time; and ordered to be read a second time on Friday 19th November and to be printed [Bill 180].

10    Pensions Bill (Programme) (No. 4),—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith pursuant to Orders [28th June 2001 and 6th November 2003 (Programming of Bills)], That the following provisions shall apply to the Pensions Bill for the purpose of supplementing the Orders of 2nd March 2004, 19th April 2004 and 18th May 2004:

1. Proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion four hours after their commencement at this day's sitting. 2. Those proceedings shall be taken in the order shown in the first column of the following Table, and each part of those proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the time shown in the second column.
    Lords Amendments
Time for conclusion of proceedings
    Amendments to Part 1 (other than Amendments to Schedules Nos. 1 to 4).
Thirty minutes after the commencement of proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments.
    Amendments to Clause No. 168; remaining Amendments to Part 2 (other than Amendments to Schedules Nos. 5 to 9); Amendments to Parts 3 and 4 (other than Amendments to Schedule No. 10).
Two hours after the commencement of those proceedings.
    Amendments to Part 5.
Three hours after the commencement of those proceedings.
    Amendments to Parts 6 to 9 (other than Amendments to Schedules Nos. 11 to 13); Amendments to Schedules Nos. 1 to 13.
Four hours after the commencement of those proceedings.
3. Any further Message from the Lords may be considered forthwith without any Question being put. 4. The proceedings on any further Message from the Lords shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement—(Mr John Heppell); The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Derek Twigg, Paul Clark: 267.

      Tellers for the Noes, Andrew Selous, Mr Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: 170.

So the Question was agreed to.

11    Pensions Bill,—The Order of the day being read, for consideration of the Lords Amendments to the Pensions Bill;

Jane Kennedy, by Her Majesty's Command, acquainted the House, That Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Bill, gives Her Consent, as far as Her Majesty's interest is concerned, That the House may do therein as it shall think fit. The House proceeded to consider the Lords Amendments to the Bill. Lords Amendments Nos. 1 to 94 were agreed to, the Commons being willing to waive their Privileges in respect of Lords Amendments Nos. 17 to 19, 47, 48, 60 and 68. Lords Amendment No. 298. An Amendment ((a)) was proposed to the Lords Amendment, in line 13, to leave out the first word 'The' and insert the words 'Subject to subsection (4A), the', instead thereof.—(Steve Webb.) And the Question being put, That the Amendment be made; The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Alan Reid, Richard Younger-Ross: 196.

      Tellers for the Noes, Paul Clark, Mr Vernon Coaker: 293.

So the Question was negatived. The Lords Amendment was disagreed to. Amendments ((a) to (k)) were made to the Bill, in lieu of Lords Amendment No. 298 disagreed to. Lords Amendment No. 95. A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That this House agrees with the Lords in their Amendment—(Malcolm Wicks); And it being two hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Lords Amendments, the Deputy Speaker put the Question, pursuant to Order [this day]:—It was agreed to. The Lords Amendment was accordingly agreed to. The Deputy Speaker then put the remaining Questions to be decided at that hour. Lords Amendment No. 283. An Amendment ((a)) was made to the Lords Amendment. The Lords Amendment, as amended, was agreed to, the Commons being willing to waive their privileges. Lords Amendments Nos. 96 to 282, 284 to 297 and 299 to 358 were agreed to, the Commons being willing to waive their privileges in respect of Lords Amendments Nos. 104, 115, 116, 119, 120, 162, 164, 213, 233, 235, 242, 250, 252 to 254, 258 to 260, 265, 279 to 281, 284 to 292, 294 to 297, 299 to 301, 306, 315, 316, 337 and 339. Lords Amendment No. 359. A Motion was made, and the Question being put, That this House disagrees with the Lords in their Amendment—(Malcolm Wicks); The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Margaret Moran, Joan Ryan: 292.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr David Ruffley, Andrew Selous: 203.

So the Question was agreed to. The Lords Amendment was accordingly disagreed to. It being more than three hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Lords Amendments, the Deputy Speaker put the remaining Question to be decided at that hour. A Motion was made, and the Question being put, That this House agrees with the Lords in their Amendments Nos. 360 to 415—(Malcolm Wicks); The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Joan Ryan, Margaret Moran: 348.

      Tellers for the Noes, Andrew Selous, Mr Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: 148.

So the Question was agreed to. Lords Amendments Nos. 360 to 415 were accordingly agreed to, the Commons being willing to waive their privileges in respect of Lords Amendments Nos. 400 and 401. Lords Amendment No. 416 was disagreed to. An Amendment ((a)) was made to the Bill, in lieu of Lords Amendment No. 416 disagreed to. Lords Amendment No. 417 was disagreed to. An Amendment ((a)) was made to the Bill, in lieu of Lords Amendment No. 417 disagreed to. Lords Amendments Nos. 418 to 672 were agreed to, the Commons being willing to waive their privileges in respect of Lords Amendments Nos. 420, 421, 428, 431, 489, 516, 517, 522, 523, 525 to 532, 535 to 537, 542, 547, 548, 550, 551, 582 to 584 and 603. A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Orders [28th June 2001 and 6th November 2003 (Programming of Bills)], That a Committee be appointed to draw up a Reason to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their Amendment No. 359; That David Cairns, Margaret Moran, Mr Nigel Waterson, Steve Webb and Malcolm Wicks be members of the Committee; That Malcolm Wicks be the Chairman of the Committee; That three be the Quorum of the Committee; That the Committee do withdraw immediately—(Margaret Moran); The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Bridget Prentice, Joan Ryan: 354.

      Tellers for the Noes, Andrew Selous, Mr Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: 148.

So the Question was agreed to.

12    Hunting Bill (Procedure) (No. 2),—A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith pursuant to Order [15th September], That the Order of 15th September shall be supplemented as follows—

1. At this day's sitting proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments shall be brought to a conclusion (unless already concluded) three hours after commencement of proceedings on the Motion relating to Hunting Bill [Money]. 2. For the purpose of bringing proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments to a conclusion in accordance with paragraph 1 the Speaker shall put the following Questions forthwith (and no others)(

      (1) any Question which has been proposed from the Chair and has not yet been decided,

      (2) the Question on any Motion moved by a Minister of the Crown to disagree with Lords Amendments (which may, in particular, be a Motion relating to a specified group of Amendments),

      (3) the Question on any Motion moved by a Minister of the Crown for an Amendment in lieu, and

      (4) the Question on any other Motion moved by a Minister of the Crown.

3. Sessional Orders F(7) and H (Programming of Bills: ancillary questions and Reasons Committee) of 28th June 2001 shall apply to proceedings in relation to the Hunting Bill. 4. Paragraph 6(1) to (7) of the Order of 15th September shall apply to proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments. 5. No notice shall be required of a further Motion to supplement the Order of 15th September—(Jim Fitzpatrick); The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Bridget Prentice, Mr John Heppell: 310.

      Tellers for the Noes, Andrew Selous, Mr Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: 179.

So the Question was agreed to.

13    Pensions Bill,—Malcolm Wicks reported from the Committee appointed to draw up a Reason to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their Amendment No. 359 to the Pensions Bill, That it had drawn up the following Reason, which it had directed him to report to the House:

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment No. 359 for the following Reason:

      Because it would alter the area of taxation, and the Commons do not offer any further Reason, trusting that this Reason may be deemed sufficient.

The Reason was agreed to. Message to the Lords to communicate the said Reason, with the Bill and Amendments.

14    Hunting Bill [Money],—Her Majesty's Recommendation having been signified to the proposed Motion relating to Hunting Bill [Money];

Resolved, That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Hunting Bill, it is expedient to authorise— (1) the payment out of money provided by Parliament of expenditure of a Minister of the Crown in connection with the Act, and (2) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund.—(Alun Michael.)

15    Hunting Bill,—The House, according to Order, proceeded to consider the Lords Amendments to the Hunting Bill.

Lords Amendment No. 1. A Motion was made, and the Question being put, That this House disagrees with the Lords in their Amendment—(Huw Irranca-Davies); The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Michael Foster, Mr Ian Cawsey: 343.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Dominic Grieve, Mr Mark Francois: 175.

So the Question was agreed to. The Lords Amendment was accordingly disagreed to. It being more than three hours after the commencement on proceedings on the Motion relating to Hunting Bill [Money], the Speaker, pursuant to Order [this day], put the remaining Questions to be decided at that hour. A Motion was made, and the Question being put, That this House disagrees with the Lords in their Amendments Nos. 2 to 43, 45, 46 and 52 to 54—(Alun Michael); The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Ian Cawsey, Mr Michael Foster: 344.

      Tellers for the Noes, Andrew Rosindell, Lembit Ípik: 173.

So the Question was agreed to. Lords Amendments Nos. 2 to 43, 45, 46 and 52 to 54 were accordingly disagreed to. A Motion was made, and the Question being put, That Amendments (a) and (b) be made to the Bill in lieu of the Lords Amendments disagreed to—(Alun Michael); The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Fraser Kemp, Mr Tom Watson: 204.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Michael Foster, Mr Ian Cawsey: 321.

So the Question was negatived. A Motion was made, and the Question being put, That the House disagrees with the Lords in their Amendments Nos. 44 and 47 to 51—(Alun Michael);

    The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Michael Foster, Mr Ian Cawsey: 334.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Dominic Grieve, Mr Mark Francois: 170.

    So the Question was agreed to.

Lords Amendments Nos. 44 and 47 to 51 were accordingly disagreed to. A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Orders [28th June 2001 and 6th November 2003 (Programming of Bills) and this day], That a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their Amendments Nos. 1 to 54; That Mr Nick Ainger, Peter Bradley, Andrew George, Mr James Gray and Alun Michael be members of the Committee; That Alun Michael be the Chairman of the Committee; That three be the Quorum of the Committee; That the Committee do withdraw immediately—(Mr Nick Ainger):—It was agreed to.

16    Public Petitions,—Public Petitions from—

(1) Mr Michael MacEwen and others for proper maintenance of the Bridleway Bridge No. 9 south of Chieveley, Berkshire; and (2) residents of Gloucester for the retention of the 'Back Badge' of the Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Worcestershire Regiment

    were presented and read; and ordered to lie upon the Table and to be printed.

17    Hunting Bill,—Alun Michael reported from the Committee appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their Amendments to the Hunting Bill, That it had drawn up the following Reasons, which it had directed him to report to the House:

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendments Nos. 1 to 9 for the following Reason:

      Because it is undesirable to permit registered hunting.

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment No. 10 for the following Reason:

      Because it involves a charge on public funds, and the Commons do not offer any further Reasons, trusting that this Reason may be deemed sufficient.

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment No. 11 for the following Reason:

      Because it is consequential on Amendments 1 to 10 to which the Commons have disagreed.

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment No. 12 for the following Reason:

      Because it involves a charge on public funds, and the Commons do not offer any further Reasons, trusting that this Reason may be deemed sufficient.

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendments Nos. 13 to 44 for the following Reason:

      Because they are consequential on Amendments 1 to 10 to which the Commons have disagreed.

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment No. 45 for the following Reason:

      Because it involves a charge on public funds, and the Commons do not offer any further Reasons, trusting that this Reason may be deemed sufficient.

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment No. 46 for the following Reason:

      Because it is consequential on Amendments 1 to 10 to which the Commons have disagreed.

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendments Nos. 47 to 51 for the following Reason:

      Because it is undesirable to expand the exemptions from the prohibition on hunting.

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment No. 52 for the following Reason:

      Because it involves a charge on public funds, and the Commons do not offer any further Reasons, trusting that this Reason may be deemed sufficient.

The Commons disagree to Lords Amendments Nos. 53 and 54 for the following Reason:

      Because they are consequential on Amendments 1 to 10 to which the Commons have disagreed.

The Reasons were agreed to. Message to the Lords to communicate the said Reasons, with the Bill and Amendments.

18    Adjournment,—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That this House do now adjourn—(Mr John Heppell);

And the Motion having been made after Seven o'clock, and Debate having continued for half an hour, the Deputy Speaker adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order, it being then twelve minutes past Eleven o'clock, till to-morrow.

[Adjourned at 11.12 p.m.

Michael J. Martin

Speaker


Mr Speaker will take the Chair at half-past Eleven o'clock.


APPENDIX I

Papers presented or laid upon the Table:

Papers subject to Affirmative Resolution:

1    Social Security,—Draft Child Benefit and Guardian's Allowance (Decisions and Appeals) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Dawn Primarolo].

2    Financial Services and Markets,—Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2737), dated 16th November 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Mr Stephen Timms].

Papers subject to Negative Resolution:

3    Consumer Protection,—Cosmetic Products (Safety) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2988), dated 15th November 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Ms Secretary Hewitt].

4    Financial Services and Markets,—Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Stakeholder Products) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2738), dated 16th November 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Mr Stephen Timms].

5    Food,—Food Safety Act 1990 (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2990), dated 16th November 2004 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Reid].

6    Income Tax,—Individual Savings Account (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2996), dated 16th November 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Mr Stephen Timms].

7    Police,—Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000 (Designated Places of Detention) (No. 2) Order 2004 (S.R. (N.I.), 2004, No. 476), dated 15th November 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Mr Secretary Murphy].

8    Supreme Court of England and Wales,—Non-Contentious Probate (Amendment) Rules 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2985), dated 12th November 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Mr David Lammy].

9    Terms and Conditions of Employment,—Employment Rights (Increase of Limits) Order 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2989), dated 10th November 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Ms Secretary Hewitt].

Other Papers:

10    Government Resources and Accounts,—Resource Accounts of the Food Standards Agency, Westminster, for 2003-04, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 1253] [Mr Stephen Timms].

11    Health,—Paper, entitled Choosing Health: Making healthy choices easier [by Command] [Cm. 6374] [Mr Secretary Reid].

12    Immigration,—Paper, entitled Control of Immigration: Statistics United Kingdom 2003 [by Command] [Cm. 6363] [Mr Secretary Blunkett].

13    Registration of Births, Marriages and Deaths (Northern Ireland),—Report of the Registrar General Northern Ireland for 2003 [by Act] [Mr Secretary Murphy].

14    Report of inquiry into disturbance and fire at Yarl's Wood Removal Centre,—Return to an Address to Her Majesty for a Return of the Report of the inquiry into disturbance and fire at Yarl's Wood Removal Centre [pursuant to Resolution this day]; to be printed [No. 1257] [Mr Secretary Blunkett].

15    Report of investigation into disturbance at Harmondsworth Immigration Removal Centre,— Return to an Address to Her Majesty for a Return of the Report of the investigation into the disturbance at Harmondsworth Immigration Removal Centre on 19th and 20th July 2004 [pursuant to Resolution this day]; to be printed [No. 1265] [Mr Secretary Blunkett].

APPENDIX II

Reports from Select Committees

1    Constitutional Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Constitutional Affairs Committee [Constitutional Reform Bill: the Government's Proposals]; to be printed [No. 628-iv] [Mr A. J. Beith].

2    Environment, Food and Rural Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Sub-Committee on The Future for UK Fishing of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee [The Future for UK Fishing]; to be printed [No. 1278-i] [Mr Michael Jack].

3    Foreign Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Foreign Affairs Committee [Cyprus]; to be printed [No. 1172-iii] [Mr Donald Anderson].

4    Home Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Home Affairs Committee [Terrorism and Community Relations]; to be printed [No. 1250-ii] [Mr John Denham].

5    International Development,—(1) Eighth Report from the International Development Committee [Department for International Development: Departmental Report 2004], together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 749];

(2) Fifth Special Report from the Committee [Government Response to the Seventh Report from the Committee, on DFID's Agriculture Policy]; to be printed [No. 1273]; (3) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee, together with Appendices [Development Assistance in Iraq]; to be printed [No. 1274-i]; and (4) Memoranda laid before the Committee [Department for International Development: Departmental Report 2004]

    [Tony Baldry].

6    Regulatory Reform,—(1) Fourteenth Report from the Regulatory Reform Committee [Proposal for the Regulatory Reform (Execution of Deeds and Documents) Order 2004], together with Appendices; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 1271]; and

(2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [Proposal for the Regulatory Reform (Execution of Deeds and Documents) Order 2004]; to be printed [No. 1272-i]

    [Mr Peter Pike].

7    Statutory Instruments,—(1) Thirty-fourth Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, together with Memoranda laid before the Committee; to be printed [No. 82-xxxiv];

(2) First Special Report from the Committee, together with Appendices; to be printed [No. 1279]; and (3) Third Report from the Select Committee on Statutory Instruments, together with Memoranda laid before the Committee; to be printed [No. 949-iii]

    [Mr David Tredinnick].

8    Trade and Industry,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Trade and Industry Committee [ECGD support for the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline project; Future investment in the Electricity Distribution Networks; Crown Post Offices]; to be printed [Nos. 1275-i, 1276-i and 1277-i] [Mr Martin O'Neill].

9    Treasury,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Treasury Committee [Regional Productivity]; to be printed [No. 308-vi] [Mr John McFall].

[W.H., No. 101]

Minutes of Proceedings of the Sitting in Westminster Hall

The sitting commenced at half-past Nine o'clock.

Adjournment,—Resolved, That the sitting be now adjourned.—(Mr Vernon Coaker.) And accordingly the sitting was adjourned till to-morrow.

[Adjourned at 4.27 p.m.

Sir Alan Haselhurst

Deputy Speaker



 
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