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House of Commons Votes and Proceedings
Wednesday 15th September 2004

The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock.

PRAYERS.

1    European Standing Committee B,—Mr James Cran reported from European Standing Committee B, That it had agreed to the following Resolution:

That the Committee takes note of European Union Document No. 9317/04, Green Paper on the approximation, mutual recognition and enforcement of criminal sanctions in the European Union; notes that this forms part of the wider Justice and Home Affairs agenda, and supports the Government's position that the Green Paper is a preliminary document which will need considerable further discussion. Report, together with Resolution, to lie upon the Table.

2    Pensions (Clawbacks) Bill,—The Order for reading the Pensions (Clawbacks) Bill a second time on Friday 15th October was read and discharged.

3    Fishery Limits (United Kingdom) (No. 2) Bill,—Ordered, That the Fishery Limits (United Kingdom) (No. 2) Bill be read a second time on Friday 15th October.

4    Message from the Lords,—A Message was brought from the Lords, as follows:

    The Lords agree to the Armed Forces (Pensions and Compensation) Bill, with Amendments, to which they desire the concurrence of this House.

5    Armed Forces (Pensions and Compensation) Bill,—Lords Amendments to the Armed Forces (Pensions and Compensation) Bill to be considered to-morrow, and to be printed [Bill 157].

6    Legislation (Memoranda of European Derivation) Bill,—Mr William Cash, supported by Mr Richard Shepherd, Sir Nicholas Winterton, Mrs Angela Browning, Sir Peter Tapsell, Sir John Butterfill, Mr David Amess and Mr David Heathcoat-Amory, presented a Bill to require a Minister of the Crown, the National Assembly for Wales, a Northern Ireland Minister or a Scottish Minister in respect of any primary or subordinate legislation which gives effect to any European Community treaty, obligation or instrument to publish a memorandum specifying the relevant European Community treaty, obligation or instrument from which it is derived and identifying which provisions in the legislation are so derived: And the same was read the first time; and ordered to be read a second time on Friday 15th October and to be printed [Bill 155].

7    Desecration of National Flags,—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to establish a criminal offence of desecrating national flags; to establish penalties in relation to the offence; and for connected purposes—(Mrs Angela Browning);

    And the Question being opposed, after permitting a short explanatory statement from the Member who made the Motion and from a Member who opposed it, the Speaker put the Question, pursuant to Standing Order No. 23 (Motions for leave to bring in bills and nomination of select committees at commencement of public business):—It was agreed to.

    Ordered, That Mrs Angela Browning, Mr Christopher Chope, Michael Fabricant, Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger, Dame Marion Roe, Andrew Rosindell and Angela Watkinson do prepare and bring in the Bill.

8    Desecration of National Flags Bill,—Mrs Angela Browning accordingly presented a Bill to establish a criminal offence of desecrating national flags; to establish penalties in relation to the offence; and for connected purposes: And the same was read the first time; and ordered to be read a second time on Friday 15th October and to be printed [Bill 156].

9    Hunting Bill (Procedure),—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That the following provisions shall have effect in relation to the Hunting Bill—

1. Proceedings on Second Reading shall be brought to a conclusion, unless already concluded, five hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion for this Order. 2. At the conclusion of proceedings on Second Reading—

      (1) the Bill shall be treated as having been committed to a Committee of the whole House and as having been reported from the Committee without amendment, and

      (2) the House shall proceed to consider any Motion standing in the name of a Minister of the Crown under section 2(4) of the Parliament Act 1911 for a suggested amendment to the Bill.

3. Proceedings on that Motion shall be brought to a conclusion, unless already concluded, three hours after their commencement (for which purpose the Speaker shall put only the Question on any amendment of the Motion selected by him and the Question on the Motion). 4. Proceedings on Third Reading—

      (1) may be taken immediately after the conclusion of proceedings on the Motion mentioned in paragraphs 2(2) and 3, and

      (2) shall be brought to a conclusion half an hour after their commencement.

5. No motion may be made to recommit the Bill. 6. In relation to the proceedings mentioned in paragraphs 1 to 4 above—

      (1) Standing Order No. 15(1) shall apply,

      (2) the proceedings shall not be interrupted under any Standing Order relating to the sittings of the House,

      (3) the Orders of the House of 28th June 2001 and 6th November 2003 relating to deferred Divisions shall not apply,

      (4) the proceedings shall not be interrupted by a Motion for the adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 24 (and any such Motion shall stand over until the conclusion of such of the proceedings mentioned in paragraphs 1 to 4 as are to be taken at the sitting concerned),

      (5) no dilatory motion may be made except by a Minister of the Crown,

      (6) the Question on any dilatory motion made by a Minister of the Crown shall be put forthwith, and

      (7) if the House is adjourned or the sitting is suspended during the course of the proceedings, no notice shall be required of a Motion made by a Minister of the Crown at the next sitting of the House varying or supplementing the provisions of this Order.

7. The Question on any Motion varying or supplementing the provisions of this Order (whether by making provision about Lords messages or otherwise) shall be put forthwith—(Alun Michael); An Amendment ((a)) was proposed to the Question, in line 4, to leave out from the word 'after' to the end of the paragraph and insert the words 'their commencement', instead thereof.—(Mr Oliver Heald.) And the Question being proposed, That the Amendment be made; Mr Bob Ainsworth rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put. And the Question being put, That the Question be now put;

    The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Vernon Coaker, Gillian Merron: 310.

      Tellers for the Noes, Gregory Barker, Mr Hugo Swire: 158.

    So the Question was agreed to.

    And the Question being accordingly put, That the Amendment be made;

    The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Peter Luff, Mr Peter Atkinson: 174.

      Tellers for the Noes, Gillian Merron, Mr Vernon Coaker: 303.

    So the Question was negatived.

    Another Amendment ((n)) was proposed to the Question, in line 10, to leave out from the word 'any' to the word 'under' in line 11 and insert the word 'Motions' instead thereof.—(Mr Oliver Heald.)

    And the Question being put, That the Amendment be made;

    The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Peter Atkinson, Mr Hugo Swire: 170.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Vernon Coaker, Bridget Prentice: 297.

    So the Question was negatived.

    And the Main Question being put;

    The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Gillian Merron, Bridget Prentice: 309.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr David Ruffley, Gregory Barker: 157.

    So the Question was agreed to.

10    Hunting Bill,—The Order of the day being read, for the Second Reading of the Hunting Bill;

And a Motion being made, and the Question being put, That the Bill be now read a second time; The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Tom Watson, Derek Twigg: 356.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Bill Wiggin, Mr Crispin Blunt: 166.

So the Question was agreed to. The Bill was accordingly read a second time and, pursuant to Order [this day], was treated as having been committed to a Committee of the whole House and as having been reported from the Committee without Amendment.

11    Hunting Bill (Commons' Suggested Amendments),—A Motion was made, and the Question being proposed, That pursuant to section 2(4) of the Parliament Act 1911, this House suggests to the Lords the following Amendment to the Hunting Bill—

    Leave out Clause 15 and insert the following new Clause—

    'Commencement

    (1) The following provisions of this Act shall come into force at the end of the period of two years beginning with the date on which it is passed—

      (a) sections 1 to 4,

      (b) Part 2 in so far as it relates to sections 1 to 4,

      (c) sections 11 to 14 in so far as they relate to sections 1 to 4,

      (d) Schedule 1, and

      (e) Schedules 2 and 3, except in so far as they change the law in relation to an activity to which section 5 applies.

    (2) The following provisions of this Act shall come into force at the end of the period of three months beginning with the date on which it is passed—

      (a) section 5,

      (b) Part 2 in so far as it relates to section 5,

      (c) sections 11 to 13 in so far as they relate to section 5, and

      (d) Schedules 2 and 3 in so far as they change the law in relation to an activity to which section 5 applies.'.—(Alun Michael.)

    An Amendment ((d)) was proposed to the Question, in line 6, to leave out from the word 'force' to the end of line 7 and insert the words 'on 31st July 2006', instead thereof.—(Mr Tony Banks.)

    And the Question being proposed, That the Amendment be made;

    And it being three hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion, the Deputy Speaker put the Question, pursuant to Order [this day].

    The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Margaret Moran, Paul Clark: 342.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Andrew Robathan, Mr Gerald Howarth: 15.

    So the Question was agreed to.

    And the Main Question, as amended, being put;

    The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Margaret Moran, Paul Clark: 329.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Roger Gale, Miss Ann Widdecombe: 8.

    So the Question was agreed to.

    Resolved, That pursuant to section 2(4) of the Parliament Act 1911, this House suggests to the Lords the following Amendment to the Hunting Bill—

    Leave out Clause 15 and insert the following new Clause—

    'Commencement

    (1) The following provisions of this Act shall come into force on 31st July 2006—

      (a) sections 1 to 4,

      (b) Part 2 in so far as it relates to sections 1 to 4,

      (c) sections 11 to 14 in so far as they relate to sections 1 to 4,

      (d) Schedule 1, and

      (e) Schedules 2 and 3, except in so far as they change the law in relation to an activity to which section 5 applies.

    (2) The following provisions of this Act shall come into force at the end of the period of three months beginning with the date on which it is passed—

      (a) section 5,

      (b) Part 2 in so far as it relates to section 5,

      (c) sections 11 to 13 in so far as they relate to section 5, and

    (d) Schedules 2 and 3 in so far as they change the law in relation to an activity to which section 5 applies.'.

12    Hunting Bill,—A Motion being made, That the Bill be now read the third time;

Alun Michael, by Her Majesty's Command, acquainted the House, That Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Bill, gives her Consent, as far as Her Majesty's prerogative is concerned, That the House may do therein as it shall think fit. Alun Michael, by Command of the Prince of Wales, acquainted the House, That His Royal Highness, having been informed of the purport of the Bill, gives his Consent, as far as the Prince of Wales's interest is concerned, That the House may do therein as it shall think fit. And the Question being proposed; And it being half an hour after the commencement of proceedings, the Speaker put the Question, pursuant to Order [this day]. The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Nick Ainger, Mr John Heppell: 339.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Bill Wiggin, Mr Crispin Blunt: 155.

So the Question was agreed to. The Bill was accordingly read the third time, and passed. Ordered, That the Amendment suggested by this House to the Bill be communicated to the Lords.

13    Public Petitions,—Public Petitions from—

    (1) residents of Coatbridge and Chryston for the creation of new offences of motor vehicle manslaughter and aggravated motor vehicle manslaughter;

    (2) the 'Clear the Debt Campaign' for a review of the debts the Royal United Hospital, Bath; and

    (3) Roger Smith of Hook, East Yorkshire, against the conversion of Holland House Nursing and Residential Care Home into a unit for people with personality disorders

    were presented and read; and ordered to lie upon the Table and to be printed.

14    Adjournment,—Resolved, That this House do now adjourn.—(Margaret Moran.)

And accordingly, the House, having continued to sit till twelve minutes to Eleven o'clock, adjourned till to-morrow.

[Adjourned at 10.48 p.m.

Michael J. Martin

Speaker


Mr Speaker will take the Chair at half-past Eleven o'clock.


APPENDIX I

Papers presented or laid upon the Table:

Papers subject to Affirmative Resolution:

1    Northern Ireland,—Draft Financial Assistance for Young Farmers (Northern Ireland) Order 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Mr Secretary Murphy].

Papers subject to Negative Resolution:

2    Chemical Weapons,—Chemical Weapons (Notification) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2406), dated 6th September 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Ms Secretary Hewitt].

3    Criminal Law,—Costs in Criminal Cases (General) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2408), dated 7th September 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Mr David Lammy].

4    Fees and Charges,—European Public Limited-Liability Company (Fees) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2407), dated 13th September 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Ms Secretary Hewitt].

5    Seeds,—(1) Beet Seed (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2385),

    (2) Cereal Seed (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2386),

    (3) Fodder Plant Seed (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2387),

    (4) Oil and Fibre Plant Seed (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2388),

    (5) Seed (Registration, Licensing and Enforcement) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2390), and

    (6) Vegetable Seed (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2389),

    dated 10th September 2004 [by Act], with Explanatory Memoranda thereon [by Command] [Secretary Margaret Beckett].

6    Town and Country Planning,—Town and Country Planning (London Borough of Camden) Special Development (Amendment) Order 2004 (S.I., 2004, No. 2355), dated 7th September 2004 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Mr Secretary Prescott].

Other Papers:

7    Air Force (Constitution),—(1) Amendment List 25 to Air Publication 1269A—The Royal Air Force Manual of Assessment of Medical Fitness (Third Edition); and

    (2) Amendment list 10 to Queen's Regulations for the Royal Air Force (Fifth Edition)

    [by Act] [Mr Secretary Hoon].

8    Electoral Law (Northern Ireland),—Report for 2003-04 of the Chief Electoral Officer for Northern Ireland [by Statutory Instrument]; to be printed [No. 1029] [Mr Secretary Murphy].

9    European Communities (No. 4, 2004),—Protocol, done at Brussels on 27th November 2003, drawn up on the basis of Article 43(1) of the Convention on the Establishment of a European Police Office (Europol Convention) amending that Convention [Cm. 6323], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Mr Secretary Straw].

10    Food,—Account of the Home Grown Sugar Beet (Research and Education) Fund for 2000-01, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 1050] [Clerk of the House].

11    Government Resources and Accounts,—(1) Account of the Royal Naval Submarine Museum for 2003-04, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 1051] [Clerk of the House], and

    (2) Report and Accounts for 2003-04 of the Service Children's Education Agency, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 1024] [Mr Secretary Hoon].

    (3) Resource Accounts for 2003-04 of—

      (i)     Armed Forces Pension Scheme,

    (ii)   Charity Commission,

    (iii)   Crown Prosecution Service,

    (iv)   Department for Culture, Media and Sport,

    (v)     Department for International Development,

    (vi)  Northern Ireland Court Service,

    (vii)  Office of Telecommunications, and

    (viii)  Office of Water Services

    with the Reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [Nos.1023, 1019, 1011, 1010, 1025, 1018, 1021 and 1022] [Mr Stephen Timms].

12    Museums and Galleries,—Account for 2003-04 of the Natural History Museum, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 1061] [Clerk of the House].

13    National Lottery,—Accounts for 2003-04 of the—

    (1) UK Film Council (Formerly Film Council) Lottery, and

    (2) United Kingdom Sports Council Lottery Distribution Fund

    with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [Nos. 1052 and 1033] [Clerk of the House].

14    Public Accounts,—Treasury Minutes on the Thirty-second to Thirty-fourth and Thirty-sixth Report of the Committee on Public Accounts, Session 2003-04 [by Command] [CM 6304] [Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer].

15    Transport,—Department of Transport Minutes, dated 15th September 2004, concerning

    (1)  a contingent liability in support of Network Rail's Debt Issuance Programme, and

    (2)  a non-statutory contingent liability in support of Network Rail's Debt Issuance Programme

    [by Command] [Mr Secretary Darling].

16    Wildlife and Countryside,—Report and Accounts of the Countryside Agency for 2003-04, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 1049] [Clerk of the House].

APPENDIX II

Standing Committees

1    Children Bill [Lords]:

    (1) The Speaker has allocated the Bill to Standing Committee B; and

    (2) the Committee of Selection has nominated twenty-two Members to serve on the Committee: Annette Brooke, Mr James Clappison, Mr Hilton Dawson, Mrs Lorna Fitzsimons, Mr Tom Harris, Margaret Hodge, Dr Stephen Ladyman, Mrs Eleanor Laing, Tim Loughton, Siobhain McDonagh, Chris Mole, Julie Morgan, Ms Meg Munn, Dr Nick Palmer, Mr David Ruffley, Jonathan Shaw, Ms Dari Taylor, Mr Don Touhig, Mr Andrew Turner, Derek Twigg, Hywel Williams and Mr Phil Willis.

2    Draft Roads (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Order 2004:

    (1) The Speaker has allocated the draft Order to the First Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation; and

    (2) the Committee of Selection has nominated sixteen Members to serve on the Committee: David Burnside, Mr Liam Byrne, Mrs Helen Clark, Mr Vernon Coaker, Mr Parmjit Dhanda, Patrick Hall, Mr Tom Harris, Mr Robert Jackson, Mr David Lidington, Mr Michael Mates, Mr Alan Meale, Lembit Ípik, Mr John Spellar, Dr Gavin Strang, Mr Hugo Swire and Brian White.

    European Standing Committees

3    European Union Document No. 11422/04, relating to flood prevention, has been referred to European Standing Committee A.

APPENDIX III

Reports from Select Committees

1    Defence,—(1) Second Special Report from the Defence Committee [Defence White Paper 2003: Government Response to the Committee's Fifth Report of Session 2003-04]; to be printed [No. 1048]; and

    (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [Future Capabilities]; to be printed [No. 1031-i]

    [Bruce George].

2    Draft Charities Bill,—Report from the Joint Committee on the Draft Charities Bill, together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Joint Committee [No. 660] [Mr George Foulkes].

3    Education and Skills,—(1) Sixth Report from the Education and Skills Committee [The Work of OFSTED]; together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 426]; and

    (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [Prison Education]; to be printed [No. 825-ii]

    [Mr Barry Sheerman].

4    Environment, Food and Rural Affairs,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the draft Animal Welfare Bill Sub-Committee of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee [The draft Animal Welfare Bill]; to be printed [No. 1032-vi] [Mr Michael Jack].

5    Environmental Audit,—(1) Eleventh Report from the Environmental Audit Committee [Aviation: Sustainability and the Government's second response]; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 1063]; and

    (2) Twelfth Report from the Committee [Wildlife Crime], together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 605]

    [Mr Peter Ainsworth].

6    European Scrutiny,—(1) Thirty-first Report from the European Scrutiny Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 42-xxxi]; and

    (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [the EU's constitutional treaty]; to be printed [No. 1064-i]

    [Jimmy Hood].

7    International Development,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the International Development Committee [DFID's bilateral programme of assistance to India]; to be printed [No. 692-iii] [Tony Baldry].

8    Modernisation of the House of Commons,—(1) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Select Committee on Modernisation of the House of Commons [Sitting Hours]; to be printed [No. 892-ii]; and

    (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [Scrutiny of European Business]; to be printed [No. 565-v]

    [Mr Peter Hain].

9    Office of the Deputy Prime Minister: Housing, Planning, Local Government and the Regions,—Minutes of Evidence taken before the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister: Housing, Planning, Local Government and the Regions Committee [The Draft Regional Assemblies Bill]; to be printed [No. 972-iv] [Andrew Bennett].

10    Public Accounts,—(1) Forty-sixth Report from the Committee of Public Accounts [The UK Emissions Trading Scheme: A new way to combat climate change [No. 604];

    (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [The BBC's investment in Freeview]; to be printed [No. 1065-i]

    [Edward Leigh].

11    Science and Technology,—(1) Eighth Special Report from the Science and Technology Committee [Government Response to the Committee's Seventh Report, Session 2003-04, Director General for Higher Education: Introductory Hearing; to be printed [No. 1015];

    (2) Ninth Special Report from the Committee [Government Response to the Committee's Ninth Report, Session 2003-04, Director General of the Research Councils: Introductory Hearing; to be printed [No. 1059];

    (3) Eleventh Report from the Committee [Research Assessment Exercise: a re-assessment]; together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 586]; and

    (4) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [Human reproductive technologies and the law]; to be printed [No. 599-vi]

    [Dr Ian Gibson].

[W.H., No. 84]

Minutes of Proceedings of the Sitting in Westminster Hall

The sitting commenced at half-past Nine o'clock.

Adjournment,—Resolved, That the sitting be now adjourned.—(Derek Twigg.)

    And accordingly the sitting was adjourned till to-morrow.

[Adjourned at 5.22 p.m.

Sir Alan Haselhurst

Deputy Speaker



 
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