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House of Commons
Session 2002 - 03
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House of Commons Votes and Proceedings
Thursday 28th November 2002

The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock.

PRAYERS.

1    Standing Orders (Private Business),-Ordered, That the Amendments to Standing Orders set out in the Schedule be made:-

    SCHEDULE

    Standing Order 4A, line 4, after 'London' insert-

      'and, if it affects Wales, at an office in Cardiff'.

    Standing Order 4A, line 15, leave out 'or community' and insert-

      ', or (in Wales) in the county or county borough in which the community,'.

    Standing Order 4A, line 37, after 'district' insert-

      ', or (in Wales) in the county or county borough'.

    Standing Order 24, line 1, after 'notice' insert 'under the preceding orders'.

    Standing Order 26, line 4, at end insert-

      '(see also Standing Order 209 (Time for delivering notices, etc.))'.

    Standing Order 27, line 72, leave out 'Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions' and insert 'Office of the Deputy Prime Minister'.

    Standing Order 27a, line 33, leave out 'Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions' and insert 'Office of the Deputy Prime Minister'.

    Standing Order 29, line 8, leave out ', Local Government and the Regions'.

    Standing Order 34, line 11, leave out ', Local Government and the Regions'.

    Standing Order 37, line 11, leave out 'Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions' and insert 'Office of the Deputy Prime Minister'.

    Standing Order 37, line 19, leave out 'Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions,' and insert 'Office of the Deputy Prime Minister.'.

    Standing Order 39, line 5, leave out ', the Home Office and the Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions,' and insert 'and the Home Office'.

    Standing Order 39, line 7, after 'Industry' insert ', the Department for Transport and the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister'.

    Standing Order 39, line 17, leave out 'General Register Office' and insert 'Office for National Statistics'.

    Standing Order 45, line 21, leave out ', Local Government and the Regions'.

    Standing Order 47, line 10, leave out 'Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions' and insert 'Office of the Deputy Prime Minister'.

    Standing Order 80 is hereby repealed.

    Standing Order 81, line 1, leave out from 'Means' to the end and insert-

      'or the Counsel to the Speaker shall, on or before 8th January each year, hold a conference with the Chairman of Committees of the House of Lords or with his Counsel for the purpose of determining in which House of Parliament the respective private bills should first be considered.'

    Standing Order 144, line 1, leave out from 'or' to the end and insert-

      'its objects, which are-

      (a) made by a minister of the Crown, and

      (b) presented to the House by being deposited in the Private Bill Office, shall stand referred to the committee on the bill.

      (2) Where a recommendation is made in any such report, the committee-

      (a) may, if it thinks fit, hear a person nominated by the minister in explanation of the recommendation, and

      (b) shall note the recommendation in its report and, if it does not agree to such recommendation shall state its reasons for dissenting.'.

    Standing Order 147, line 8, leave out ', Local Government and the Regions'.

    Standing Order 147, line 11, leave out ', Local Government and the Regions'.

    Standing Order 154, line 13, leave out ', Local Government and the Regions'.

    Standing Order 154, line 28, leave out ', Local Government and the Regions'.-(The Chairman of Ways and Means.)

2    Ninth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation,-Mr David Chidgey reported from the Ninth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation the draft Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income) (South Africa) Order 2002 and the draft Double Taxation Relief (Taxes on Income) (Taiwan) Order 2002.

    Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to lie upon the Table.

3    Message from the Lords,-A Message was brought from the Lords, as follows:

    House of Lords Reform (Joint Committee),-The Lords communicate that they have appointed a Committee of twelve Lords to join with the Committee appointed by the Commons to consider and report on issues relating to House of Lords Reform;

    They have ordered that the Committee have power to agree with the Committee appointed by the Commons in the appointment of a Chairman;

    That the Committee have leave to report from time to time;

    That the Reports of the Committee from time to time shall be printed, notwithstanding any adjournment of the House;

    That the Committee have power to appoint specialist advisers;

    That the Committee have power to adjourn from place to place within the United Kingdom;

    That the proceedings of the Joint Committee on House of Lords Reform in the last Session of Parliament be referred to the Committee;

    And they propose that the Committee do meet with the Committee appointed by the Commons on Tuesday 3rd December at Ten o'clock in Committee Room 4.

4    House of Lords Reform,-Ordered, That the Lords Message of this day relating to the Joint Committee on House of Lords Reform be now considered.

    Lords Message considered accordingly.

    Ordered, That the Committee appointed by this House do meet the Lords Committee as proposed by their Lordships.

    Message to the Lords to acquaint them therewith.

5    Welsh Grand Committee,-A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Orders No. 107 (Welsh Grand Committee (matters relating exclusively to Wales) and No. 108 (Welsh Grand Committee (sittings)), That-

    (1) the matter of the Government's Pre-Budget Report as it relates to Wales be referred to the Welsh Grand Committee for its consideration;

    (2) the Committee shall meet at Westminster on Thursday 5th December at five minutes to Nine o'clock and at Two o'clock to consider the Government's Pre-Budget Report as it relates to Wales under Standing Order No. 107 (Welsh Grand Committee (matters relating exclusively to Wales)); and

    (3) at the meeting-

      (a) the Chairman shall interrupt proceedings at Four o'clock; and

      (b) at the conclusion of those proceedings a motion for the adjournment of the Committee may be made by a Minister of the Crown pursuant to Standing Order No. 108(5) (Welsh Grand Committee (sittings))-(Mr Ivor Caplin):-It was agreed to.

6    Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Bill,-The Order of the day being read, for the Second Reading of the Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Bill;

    And a Motion being made, and the Question being proposed, That the Bill be now read a second time;

    An Amendment was proposed to the Question, to leave out from the word 'That' to the end of the Question and add the words 'this House declines to give a Second Reading to the Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Bill because it would be divisive and undermine successful working partnerships between the NHS and Social Services Departments; imposes a negative fining system on local authorities rather than promoting positive policies to tackle the problems facing community care; fails to redress the loss of capacity due to over 60,000 beds being closed down in residential care since 1997 and the closure of over 2,000 care homes; fails to recognise that the number of households receiving domiciliary care has fallen by almost 100,000 households; and unfairly penalises local authorities without improving the system of discharging patients from hospital', instead thereof.-(Dr Liam Fox.)

    And the Question being put, That the Amendment be made;

    The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Mark Hoban, Angela Watkinson: 136.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Nick Ainger, Mr Ivor Caplin: 238.

    So the Question was negatived.

    And the Main Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 62 (Amendment on second or third reading);

    The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Nick Ainger, Mr Ivor Caplin: 237.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Mark Hoban, Angela Watkinson: 135.

    So the Question was agreed to.

    The Bill was accordingly read a second time.

7    Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Bill (Programme),-A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Orders [28th June 2001 and 29th October 2002], That the following provisions shall apply to the Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Bill:

    Committal

    1. The Bill shall be committed to a Standing Committee.

    Standing Committee

    2. Proceedings in the Standing Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Thursday 12th December.

    3. The Standing Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

    Consideration and Third Reading

    4. Proceedings on consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.

    5. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on the day on which proceedings on consideration are commenced.

    6. Sessional Order B (programming committees) made by the House on 28th June 2001 shall not apply to proceedings on consideration and Third Reading.

    Other proceedings

    7. Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments or any further messages from the Lords) may be programmed-(Charlotte Atkins);

    The House divided.

      Tellers for the Ayes, Mr Nick Ainger, Mr Ivor Caplin: 228.

      Tellers for the Noes, Mr Mark Hoban, Angela Watkinson: 119.

    So the Question was agreed to.

8     Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Bill [Money],-Her Majesty's Recommendation having been signified to the proposed Motion relating to Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Bill [Money];

    A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 52 (Money resolutions and ways and means resolutions in connection with bills), That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Community Care (Delayed Discharges etc.) Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of-

      (a) any expenditure incurred by the Secretary of State by virtue of the Act; and

      (b) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable out of money so provided by virtue of any other enactment-(Charlotte Atkins):-It was agreed to.

9    Northern Ireland,-A Motion was made, and the Question being put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 118 (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation), That the draft Housing Support Services (Northern Ireland) Order 2002, which was laid before this House on 15th November, be approved-(Charlotte Atkins):-It was agreed to.

10    Scottish Grand Committee,-Ordered, That-

    (1) the Scottish Grand Committee shall meet at Westminster on Tuesday 10th December at half-past Ten o'clock to consider a substantive Motion for the adjournment of the Committee; and

    (2) in respect of that sitting Standing Order No. 99 (Scottish Grand Committee (substantive motions for the adjournment)) shall have effect with the substitution in paragraph (2)(b) of the word 'five' for the word 'ten'.-(Charlotte Atkins.)

11    Section 5 of the European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993,-Ordered, That, for the purposes of their approval under section 5 of the European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993, the Government's assessment as set out in the Pre-Budget Report 2002 shall be treated as if it were an instrument subject to the provisions of Standing Order No. 118 (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation).-(Charlotte Atkins.)

12    Public Petitions,-Public Petitions from-

    (1) residents of South East Essex and surrounding areas against proposals for an airport at Cliffe in Kent,

    (2) electors of Blaby, South Leicestershire, and others against proposals for an airport between Coventry and Rugby, and

    (3) Councillor Riaz Chaudhri, the remaining Redlands Ward councillors, Northcourt Avenue Residents' Association, local shopkeepers, students and staff of Reading University and local residents against the closure of Christchurch Road Post Office, Reading,

    were presented and read; and ordered to lie upon the Table and to be printed.

13    Adjournment,-Resolved, That this House do now adjourn.-(Charlotte Atkins.)

    And accordingly the House, having continued to sit till eight minutes past Eight o'clock, adjourned till Monday 2nd December.

[Adjourned at 8.08 p.m.

Michael J. Martin
Speaker


Mr Speaker will take the Chair at half-past Two o'clock on Monday next.


APPENDIX I

Papers presented or laid upon the Table:

Papers subject to Affirmative Resolution:

    1    Social Security,-Draft Social Security Commissioners (Procedure) (Tax Credits Appeals) Regulations 2002 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Ms Rosie Winterton], and

    (2) Draft Tax Credits (Appeals) (No. 2) Regulations 2002 [by Act], with an Explanatory Memorandum [by Command] [Mr Secretary Smith].

Other Papers:

    2    Defence Executive Agencies,-Report and Accounts of the Defence Procurement Agency for 2001-02, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 13] [Mr Secretary Hoon].

    3    Food Standards,-Food Standards Agency: Autumn Performance Report 2002 [by Command] [Cm. 5694] [Mr Secretary Milburn].

    4    Freedom of Information,-Report, under section 87(5) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 on proposals for bringing fully into force those provisions of the Act which are not yet fully in force [by Act]; to be printed [No. 6] [Yvette Cooper].

    5    National Lottery,-Report and Accounts of the Heritage Lottery Fund and National Heritage Memorial Fund for 2001-02, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to be printed [No. 5] [Clerk of the House].

    6    National Savings and Investments,-National Savings and Investments: Autumn Performance Report 2002 [by Command] [Cm. 5691] [Ruth Kelly].

    7    Political Parties, Elections and Referendums,-First Report from the Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission, Session 2002-03 [by Act]; to be printed [No. 56] [The Speaker].

    8    Postal Services,-Report of the Postal Services Commission for 2001-02 [by Act]; to be printed [No. 72] [Ms Secretary Hewitt].

    9    Social Security Administration,-Report by the Industrial Injuries Advisory Council reviewing the prescription of occupational deafness in accordance with section 171 of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 [by Command] [Cm. 5672] [Mr Secretary Smith].

    10    Transport, Local Government and the Regions,-Government Response to the Fourteenth Report of the Transport, Local Government and the Regions Committee, Session 2001-02, on How the Local Government Act 2000 is Working [by Command] [Cm. 5687] [Mr Secretary Prescott].

    11    Work and Pensions,-Department for Works and Pensions: Autumn Performance Report 2002 [by Command] [Cm. 5660] [Mr Secretary Smith].

APPENDIX II

Standing Committees

    1    Draft Fur Farming (Prohibition) (Northern Ireland) Order 2002,-The Speaker has appointed Mrs Marion Roe Chairman of the First Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation in respect of the draft Order.

    2    Draft International Development Association (Thirteenth Replenishment) Order 2002,-The Speaker has appointed Mr John McWilliam Chairman of the Second Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation in respect of the draft Order.

    3    Draft Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (Codes of Practice) (Statutory Powers of Stop and Search) Order 2002,-The Speaker has appointed David Taylor Chairman of the Third Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation in respect of the draft Order.

    4    Draft Harbours (Northern Ireland) Order 2002:

    (1) The Speaker has appointed Mr John McWilliam Chairman of the Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation in respect of the draft Order.

    (2) The Committee of Selection has discharged Gillian Merron from the Fourth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation (nominated in respect of the draft Order); and nominated in substitution Mr Fraser Kemp.

    5    Draft Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Cash Searches: Code of Practice) Order 2002,-The Speaker has appointed Mr David Amess Chairman of the Fifth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation in respect of the draft Order.

    6    Draft Jobseekers Allowance (Amendment) Regulations 2002,-The Speaker has appointed Mr John Cummings Chairman of the Seventh Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation in respect of the draft Order.

    7    Draft Flexible Working (Procedural Requirements) Regulations 2002,-The Speaker has appointed Mr Roger Gale Chairman of the Ninth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation in respect of the draft Order.

    8    Companies (Fees) (Amendment No. 2) Regulations 2002,-The Speaker has appointed Mr Derek Conway Chairman of the Tenth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation in respect of the Order.

    9    Draft Environment (Northern Ireland) Order 2002,-The Speaker has appointed Mr Alan Hurst Chairman of the Eleventh Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation in respect of the draft Order.

European Standing Committees

    10    European Union document No. 15275/01, originally referred to European Standing Committee A on 26th June, and European Union document No. 12530/02, originally referred on 20th November, both relating to major accident hazards involving dangerous substances, have been referred to European Standing Committee B.

APPENDIX III

Reports from Select Committees

    1    Health,-Minutes of Evidence taken before the Health Committee [Sexual Health]; to be printed [No. 69-ii] [Mr David Hinchliffe].

    2    Home Affairs,-(1) First Report from the Home Affairs Committee [Extradition Bill], with Appendices, together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, together with Minutes of Proceedings relating to the Report [No. 138]; and

    (2) Second Report from the Committee [Criminal Justice Bill], together with Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings relating to the Report [No. 83]

    [Mr Chris Mullin].

    3    Public Administration,-(1) First Report from the Select Committee on Public Administration [Ministerial Accountability and Parliamentary Questions: The Government Response to the Committee's Ninth Report of Session 2001-02], together with an Appendix; to be printed, with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee relating to the Report [No. 136];

    (2) Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee [Public Service Targets]; to be printed [No. 62-iii]

    [Tony Wright].

[W.H., No. 4]

Minutes of Proceedings of the Sitting in Westminster Hall

The sitting commenced at half-past Two o'clock.

    Adjournment (10 Year Plan for Transport-Eighth Report from the Transport, Local Government and the Regions Committee, Session 2001-02, and the Government's response thereto),-Resolved, That the sitting be now adjourned.-(Charlotte Atkins.)

    And accordingly the sitting was adjourned till Tuesday 3rd December.

[Adjourned at 5.23 p.m.

Sir Alan Haselhurst

Deputy Speaker



 
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